Nullpack 2019-02-21: Gravitic Infantry

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nukularpower
Halfling
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:37 am

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#166 Post by nukularpower »

More to say later, going to bed, but in the meantime, bug to report: Trying to unlearn Arcane Disruption from level 2, I got the LUA error below. I right clicked it a few times, getting the error each time, and then left clicked it. After that, it went from 2 to 1, as if it was at level 0 all along... but I lost the 2 generic points permenently, it seems :( :( :(

Lua Error: /mod/class/Actor.lua:3596: attempt to index a nil value
At [C]:-1 __newindex
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:3596 unlearnTalent
At /mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:335 learnTalent
At /mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:896 onUseTalent
At ...dons/Infinite500/superload/mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:312 on_use
At /mod/dialogs/elements/TalentTrees.lua:163 onUse
At /mod/dialogs/elements/TalentTrees.lua:119 fct
At /engine/Mouse.lua:52 receiveMouse
At /engine/Mouse.lua:90 delegate
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:533 mouseEvent
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:312 fct
At /engine/Mouse.lua:52

Is this due to using Infinite 500? I see it in the log there, so not sure.

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#167 Post by Doctornull »

nukularpower wrote: Lua Error: /mod/class/Actor.lua:3596: attempt to index a nil value
At [C]:-1 __newindex
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:3596 unlearnTalent
Looks like this is a ToME bug which will be fixed in 1.1.6:
http://git.develz.org/?p=tome.git;a=com ... bfd0c80bda

I'll see if I can include the bug fix in my mod by superloading Actor.lua
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#168 Post by Doctornull »

Done, I found a way to patch Actor.lua so this won't happen, and the patch ought to auto-disable itself when 1.1.6 drops.

Also I upped the starting damage for the Arcane Surge effects. They should compare favorably to Fiery Hands, but not be too broken at the high end.

Cheers!
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

malboro_urchin
Archmage
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#169 Post by malboro_urchin »

nukularpower wrote:Shortstaff + dagger seems far more effective to me so far than double dagger, actually.
Even with Dagger Mastery bought up? That's unusual.[/quote]

It makes sense, as many of your surge values are buffed by spellpower. Lightning Leap's damage and chance to proc daze, & therefore Hurricane (and Hurricane's damage) would also be buffed by spellpower.

Perhaps you could fit in a Storm Warden generic talent (maybe a sustain?) somewhere that increases your spellpower when dual-wielding daggers and replaces str on daggers with mag? As it is, if your class needs spellpower, a shortstaff in the main hand (should you be lucky enough to find one) is pretty much always the better option, even with dagger mastery, because shortstaves grant spellpower, reliably boost a damage type, and work 100% off mag, which every Storm Warden is boosting. As a Storm Warden, I'm always pumping dex (45% for daggers) and mag (100% for staves), never str (another 45% for daggers).
Mewtarthio wrote:Ever wonder why Tarelion sends you into the Abashed Expanse instead of a team of archmages lead by himself? They all figured "Eh, might as well toss that violent oaf up in there and see if he manages to kick things back into place.

nukularpower
Halfling
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:37 am

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#170 Post by nukularpower »

SW damage does seem better than I initially thought. I am all for buffing Surge damage a bit, though.

I actually dropped my shortstaff for a tier 1 Skeletal Claw (the whip). It's perfect for this class - the on hit:melee procs from Flurry, and the On hit:spell procs from things like Lightning Jump... and interestingly, Wintry Wrath or whatever actually counts as a spell :) I'm sure I'll replace it once I can find a shortstaff that doesn't suck, though. The huge damage boost seems worth it, from the staff type, and it's an extra stun, if nothing else (from the Angolwen staff tree.)

Anyways, I'm pretty happy with the damage output on the whole. Guess I jumped to conclusions about it a bit early - it still seems a bit low, but not excessively so. And this class has so much utility that that might be a good thing - with Lightning Leap on a 4 turn CD and 40% resist to pretty much everything, built in Heroism, etc.

Fun stuff!

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#171 Post by Doctornull »

nukularpower wrote:And this class has so much utility that that might be a good thing - with Lightning Leap on a 4 turn CD and 40% resist to pretty much everything, built in Heroism, etc.

Fun stuff!
Great!

I hope to read about your win.
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

jademonkey
Yeek
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:59 pm

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#172 Post by jademonkey »

Hey docnull ran into a bug with my flenser. Looks like it was trying to call a "getCure" function from stonewarden.lua, which had a nil value. It happens every time I get attacked by this brown mold in the ruined dungeon. Completely lua error bombs me out of the game.

Hope that helps!

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#173 Post by Doctornull »

jademonkey wrote:Hope that helps!
Fixed. Thanks!
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

jademonkey
Yeek
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:59 pm

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#174 Post by jademonkey »

Well, now I'm getting a new error in the same situation. strmwarden.lua line 257: attempt to get length of global 'eff' (a nil value).

Thanks for pushing a fix for the initial post so quickly!

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#175 Post by Doctornull »

jademonkey wrote:Well, now I'm getting a new error in the same situation. strmwarden.lua line 257: attempt to get length of global 'eff' (a nil value).
Damn it.

Fix pushed.
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

Spleenling
Higher
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:44 am

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#176 Post by Spleenling »

Pull of Gravity is bugged, Its now a knockback effect for my character

jademonkey
Yeek
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:59 pm

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#177 Post by jademonkey »

Won with my Flenser, HP Bucket the Ghoul!

http://te4.org/characters/6825/tome/87a ... 260add3796

Character Report time:

Early game I just grabbed a bunch of healing mod (including the passive!) and used fast metabolism. I had bad luck with dagger drops, but between the high base HP and the constant healing, everything was fairly trivial. I originally split most of my points between magic and dex, but it became apparent that I wasn't really casting much, so after I maxed bone armor (first cat point to open), I stopped putting any points in magic at all. I primarily focused on my defensive abilities up to Dreadfell, with only a single point in each of the offensive abilities in the flensing tree, the first two weapon fighting skill, and rush. I maxed Blood Grasp, but, looking back, I wouldn't have put a single point in the blood tree. The only spell I cast for 99% of the game was bone grab. Also, with bone shield running, I wanted to make sure I had enough vim in my pool so I could activate the generic tree healing skill. That just reinforced the complete avoidance of casting.

Dreadfell was, as I expected, by far the hardest part of the game. My damage had come into its own yet and my tankiness was no longer autowinning everything. Also, I was a ghoul so yeah. I took my time clearing Dreadfell and ran in to the master right at the stairs on the last floor. I realized I didn't have the damage output to kill him before I ran out of healing options, so I retreated and started far portaling until I was able to find Moon and Star. Upon returning, the combination of Twist the Knife and No Escape made him an absolute joke-- he was silenced and confused for practically the entire fight.

Beating the master bumped me up to level 30 and I grabbed Irresistable Sun. Bosses were hardly a threat with the amount of statuses I could reliably get on them and being able to keep their abilities on cool down w/ the flurry-esque ability, but I didn't have any crowd control. Sun seemed like it would basically clear the rest of the game for me, so I maxed strength as quickly as possible after grabbing it. At 36 + wyrm bile, I opened and extra cat pointed Celestial/Light and immediately maxed Providence, since I had absolutely no way of dealing with magical status effects. I wouldn't have spent the extra cat point, but I'd wasted the class points in the blood tree and didn't have enough to use in another category. I should have grabbed a rune, but I thought I already had 5 for some reason haha. At 42 I grabbed I Can Carry The World and got my strength to the 170 range. I also started gearing for +physical damage, +crit mult, and +phys pen. By the end of the game I had 260 crit mult, 100% phys bonus damage, 35% phys pen. Each of the flenser tree attacks was doing 3k-5k+ damage. In the late 40s I maxed blinding speed + momentum, which the lack of fatigue from Carry made possible, and other than a single stair boss, everything went down within 2-4 turns, including the final bosses.


Some thoughts on the Flenser:

I'd say it's a very powerful class, probably somewhere between marauder and reaver in terms of both strength and function. It doesn't share the reaver's major disadvantage (lack of mobility) since you have rush right out of the box. Of course, I don't think you'll ever be able to cast like a reaver and dual wielding knives is (maybe??) lower damage than two one handers. Play-wise, it ended up being marauder with huge HP pool, some extra tanky abilities, and bone shield for me. Of course, you don't get unstoppable, so that's probably a fair trade off?

The flensing style tree is super good. The free bleed from first blood actually gets to be fairly powerful (initial hit for 200 range for me by end game) and I love how it works with twist the knife. Just shoved it on autocast and never looked back. Rain of Agony may be too good. Not quite flurry level of damage, but putting 4 talents on a 7 turn cool down really shuts down a lot of bosses and you still do excellent damage with it. No Escape is insanely good too. Hitting an enemy with scholar of brutality followed by no escape gives me 13 turns of them attacking at half speed. Plus, there's a decent chance the enemy is silenced or confused for 10 turns thanks to twist the knife. Scholar of Brutality seems like almost a straight cripple clone, and flensers do have access to dirty fighting... seems a little odd to me. I don't know that any of the abilities are overpowered on their own, but the combo and synergy with twist the knife is really really good. Which it probably should be.

I think Blood Magic is a really well balanced tree. All of the abilities are appealing, but none seemed over powering. Twist the Knife is one of my favorite skills from anything I've played.

The combination of trees available is really good. Having Bone and combat techniques alone is all a character really needs :)

I'm really curious how a greater caster focus would turn out on a flenser. I may try to run that here before too long. It seems like there's definitely several viable ways to run them.

Overall, I really enjoyed playing the class. The game was a cakewalk, but normal is fairly easy for me by this point, so I'm not sure that means anything. Fast metabolism won the early game and Irresistable Sun won the rest (it was ticking for 700 by the end), so neither of those are issues with the flenser's balance imo. The Master was the only place where I thought the flenser may be a little too good, since he never got a chance to do anything with me keeping his abilities on cool down and keeping him silenced and confused. But a lot of classes can completely shut him down. Anyway, excellent job and thanks for the very fun play through! And sorry if I ramble too much haha.

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-07: Temporal Assault

#178 Post by Doctornull »

Spleenling wrote:Pull of Gravity is bugged, Its now a knockback effect for my character
Ah, it's pulling to the point targeted, which can be far from you. If you target a point adjacent to yourself it'll work correctly until I can post a patch.

Correct behavior will be to pull towards you no matter where you target.

EDIT: pushed fix, thanks for reporting!


jademonkey wrote:Won with my Flenser, HP Bucket the Ghoul!
(...)
Overall, I really enjoyed playing the class. The game was a cakewalk, but normal is fairly easy for me by this point, so I'm not sure that means anything. Fast metabolism won the early game and Irresistable Sun won the rest (it was ticking for 700 by the end), so neither of those are issues with the flenser's balance imo. The Master was the only place where I thought the flenser may be a little too good, since he never got a chance to do anything with me keeping his abilities on cool down and keeping him silenced and confused. But a lot of classes can completely shut him down. Anyway, excellent job and thanks for the very fun play through! And sorry if I ramble too much haha.
It's so great to see a good player take this class and run with it. Thanks for the report, and very glad you had fun!

In terms of power and tactics, my intent is to make the Flenser really good at single-target takedown, but not so hot when it comes to dealing with groups. Sounds like you're good enough to work around that flaw and isolate your target, so you just get the upside.

It sounds like I may need to work more spellcasting synergy into the class.

Anyway, thanks again! :)
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

Doctornull
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2402
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 pm
Location: Ambush!

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-11: Temporal Assault (now for Heavy and

#179 Post by Doctornull »

Temporal Assault added to the Temporal Warden, so now they have some chance of not being sucky and boring at high levels.

In particular, Reversion Cache should solve some of their durability issues.
Check out my addons: Nullpack (classes), Null Tweaks (items & talents), and New Gems fork.

nukularpower
Halfling
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:37 am

Re: Nullpack 2014-02-11: Temporal Assault (now for Heavy and

#180 Post by nukularpower »

Funny, Ghoul Flenser is where I was going to test it. I plan to go for that aoe blight-puke prodigy, as it sounds like it could be pretty OP when combined with Retch, and Flenser would be a perfect class to take advantage of that combo :)

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