Nullpack 2019-02-21: Gravitic Infantry

[Doctornull]

Transposition Strike isn't giving the Void Attunement buff if used on an enemy.

Thanks, I'll fix this.

[Orangeflame]

Right now, I've got a level 38 Stormwarden, taking bows (not daggers), storm, temporal, and lightning surge. (Storm fury FTW )
Some of my opinions/thoughts/observations so far:

1 - I'm quite able to use melee with dual daggers, despite having no points in knife mastery, thanks to great on-hit and hurricane procs from my lightning surge. It's fun, and I think it could be quite viable to go all melee! (in a different char)

2 - The first skill in Technique/Mage Warden has a *lot* of mana regen, so much so I didn't worry about a tiny mana pool after turning on essence of speed and hurricane and tempest. It maybe should be lowered a bit, IMHO.

3 - I've only used the first surge (storm), and it is awesome, especially combined with essence of speed and Shalore's speed racial. Who needs movement infusions? I have it on auto-use when enemies seen, so it and lightning leap solve all potential mobility issues for this class - I don't even notice the lack of a teleport.

4 - I have a lot of generics to spend. That's fine, but I think Technique/Mobility at a low (1.0?) amount would be a nice place to sink some points without changing the playstyle.

This is the first bow class I've really enjoyed playing!

[Doctornull]

@ Orangeflame, great! Is this your character? http://te4.org/characters/62972/tome/53 ... 4fb1f17cca

I'm delighted that you have Storm Fury, it's basically made for this class (or vice-versa). Also your quiver item is incredible.

With just Storm Surge, how did you survive Storm Wyrms and such early on, or did you manage to avoid them before you maxed out Tempest? Or did you just kite them with Lightning Leap?

In terms of generic points, I notice you're not using Divinations at all. Any reason for that?

Cheers!

[Sradac]

that bow is soooo rare. And so thematic for this class

I bet the Voltaic Amulet from HousePets Arcanum would go pretty good with this class also

[Orangeflame]

Yup, that's me!

To get Storm Fury, I used the item vault - not that fair, but totally worth it

Voltaic Amulet? Yeah, the chain lightning would go nicely with tempest and hurricane, but I don't think it has on-hit lightning daze damage anymore, just plain lightning. Not sure.

To kill storm drakes, hatchlings, and wyrms (I think I only fought one before I got tempest), I took the simplest approach - shoot arrows at them until they die. So long as I had some cover to run behind and reload/heal, I was fine.

As for the Divination, it's mostly a personal choice thing. I never remember to use Arcane Eye before opening vaults, so nowadays I don't put it on my hotbar even when I take it. The sustains would make my pool even smaller, and the only time I've used vision is to scout the shortest path to get Melinda to the exit. Would I invest in it for a Stormwarden? Sure, but I'll have to increase my mana pool first!

[Sradac]

Also I think Divination as a whole is a pretty lackluster tree, the only time I think I ever invest at all in it is on a Necromancer and even then its just because of the whole "what else am I supposed to use my generics on"

[malboro_urchin]

Would it be possible to give the Stormwarden the Dual Techniques category, so that we can choose to specialize further into melee? I noticed there were 2 archery trees, and only the one dual weapon tree.

[Doctornull]

Would it be possible to give the Stormwarden the Dual Techniques category, so that we can choose to specialize further into melee? I noticed there were 2 archery trees, and only the one dual weapon tree.

Dual Techniques is there but locked.

Archers usually get 4 trees (plus Slings) so getting two trees is pretty much half their allotment, but I could lock the Archery Prowess tree if people really hate the asymmetry with dual-weapons trees.

To get Storm Fury, I used the item vault - not that fair, but totally worth it

Agree, totally worth it.

To kill storm drakes, hatchlings, and wyrms (I think I only fought one before I got tempest), I took the simplest approach - shoot arrows at them until they die. So long as I had some cover to run behind and reload/heal, I was fine.

That works.

Also I think Divination as a whole is a pretty lackluster tree, the only time I think I ever invest at all in it is on a Necromancer and even then its just because of the whole "what else am I supposed to use my generics on"

It is not the most exciting tree, but if you don't have a use for Cunning, and you don't get Survival, then it's a decent replacement for Survival. Invisible enemies can be very dangerous, and Arcane Eye 5/5 solves them.

[malboro_urchin]

I don't mind the dual-wield/archery asymmetry with regard to talent trees. As long as both are equally capable at doing their thing, I'm fine. I haven't played with the Storm Warden myself, but if I do, I'd like to melee. It sounds like a melee Storm Warden is pretty well off, with the availability of Arcane Surges, both dual weapon fighting trees, & the synergy between Hurricane (the AoE lightning that procs when a lightning spell dazes) and the Thunderstrike tree (the AoE of Hurricane and Lightning Leap combine especially well with Lightning Leap's insane mobility)!

Edit: Storm Warden ramblings!

Re: getting all 4 arcane surges, investment in tree buffs surges in various ways:
that's perfect! I feel that at least a few people on here have recently thrown about criticism of the way skill prereqs ruin the design of skills like your surges, or Celestial/Chants or Hymns, etc,, and I'm really looking forward to having 4 surges right off the bat!

Any ideas on how to acquire a crapton of mana with Stormwarden? I started the class because I really want to start shittons of Hurricanes with Lightning Leap and Storm Surge (would the lightning daze damage on melee attacks from Storm Surge trigger Hurricane? Could they please trigger Hurricane? Docnull pls). I also want to run Thunderstorm so that my lightning skills aren't useless against storm drakes, but that costs more mana than I see the class able to acquire. Final thing regarding stormwarden, then I'll leave, promise! The final talent in the Thunderstrike tree is basically another Lightning Leap that can blind and daze in a radius. For Stormwarden, I don't believe it should have a cooldown of 80 (!!). It makes sense for the Striker because it resets stealth, but for the cooldown to be so high for Stormwarden, it should either have a class specific benefit or I'd lower the cooldown to 8, 10, 15, something like that (I prefer the latter for the time being).

[Doctornull]

I'm really looking forward to having 4 surges right off the bat!

The new version has just been released on te4.org, with all 4 surges active from the start.

Oh damn, I neglected the icons. Whelp, then one more version before Steam release.

The final talent in the Thunderstrike tree is basically another Lightning Leap that can blind and daze in a radius. For Stormwarden, I don't believe it should have a cooldown of 80 (!!). It makes sense for the Striker because it resets stealth, but for the cooldown to be so high for Stormwarden, it should either have a class specific benefit or I'd lower the cooldown to 8, 10, 15, something like that (I prefer the latter for the time being).

At one point, it's a potent last-resort escape. At more than one point, it's a last-resort escape which can disable enemies in a large radius. I feel like it's useful for the Storm Warden at one point, so for now I'm going to leave it alone.

---

In addition to the Storm Warden updates, may I introduce ...

The New! Flenser is a Vim-powered dual-wielder, using daggers to bleed his victims. The Flenser's small Vim pool and permanent Bloodcasting combine with a high Life rating to give a unique resource playstyle: even after a Manaclash, the Flenser remains a potent spellcaster.

This class also introduces a new Generic tree, Blood Magic, which I think might be suitable as a reward from the Grand Corruptor. Please play test the Flenser and let me know!

[Doctornull]

Oh damn, I neglected the icons. Whelp, then one more version before Steam release.

Icons added, pushed to Steam.

[devilindupriest]

I *love* addons but generally don't play anything outside of the 'core' game despite adding almost anything I find that I feel is mostly balanced, couldn't tell you why. With that said, I was in the mood for different, and started a Heavy.

With THAT said, I love it.

With THAT said, notes so far:

I fell in love with Time Keeper when I found it as random loot on a bulwark, as starter gear it scales way too well, though. By level 5 it was twice the shield that a Reinforced Iron of Lightning Resist green I found was, when normally at level 5 I'd have been in the money as a shield user finding that. Also with getting Temporal resist as one of it's scalings by level 11 it scales too well with it's own class, since Damage Smearing will come on the scene in 1 more level.

Ground Contraction is the best movement in the game. I /like/ that, and think it suits the class, but maybe the range scaling on level needs to be toned back a notch. The shield slam and reduced turn usage, and ability at 5 already push it above almost every other movement ability. Reaching 7 range by 2 is probably un-neccesary.

Having both Ground Contraction and Temporal Wake already makes it just about the best mobility class in existence, I think Spacetime Weaving should be replaced from generics. The best charge in the game, one of the better utility/attack movements, AND the single best teleport/move in the game?

I really like the concept of the Heavy Impact attack, but as a tier 2 attack it's a bit too beefy AND it has an incredibly valuable CC AND non-physical resist. For all that it should probably start at 101%/101% instead of 141%/141%. AT the least 125%/125% matching Dual Strike and such.

I also feel like it really needs another non-magical class tree in the locked catagories. As much as Speed Control offers a much needed AOE and is a great tree in terms of synergy and power, I would probably say drop it for a non-magical/willpower tree of some sort. Possibly Superiority, as much as I feel that whole tree needs a rework it might not be a bad fit. Personally, power-wise if I were an Adventurer it'd be Time Travel I'd skip since I just don't care for it, but thematically I think it suits to have it there, where-as Speed Control is just almost too much of a good thing added to 3 of the best move abilities in the game. Could still drop it as well and just let chronomancy be their 'Look, I'm a time guy' skill.

Between shields, Displace Damage, and damage smearing it's got a great defensive kit. It's got just about the best movement kit in the game even without Displacement or Speed Control. Maybe work a lesser movement bonus into one of the other class trees instead of speed control. They are the Heavy infantry, after all. Charging and a bit faster, instead of charging and just as fast as the namby pamby archer wardens. With Temporal Combat's stat boosts and Temporal Folding's damage bonus to help smooth the way it's got one of the easiest early game starts in the game even without considering Time Keeper.

Basically it's pretty much exactly the class I've been looking for, but a few points here and there seem tweakable.

ETA: Possibly Mobility instead of Spacetime Weaving. Hack'n'Back would be OP combined with Ground Contraction, but it nets the movement speed boost letting you drop Speed Control as a tree in Class talents, and encourages a little stat spread.


ETAA: Lake of Nur 2, took 2 oozing horror and a pack of Devourers on at the same time. Won.

Random note: My apprentice mage for Angolwen appears to be missing. =< I may have to restart.

Wierdling Beast down, level 13. Walk forward-break out of ice block-Ground Contraction-Heavy Impact-Assault-Shield Slam-Overpower-Walk Forward Twice-Heavy Impact, dead.

[devilindupriest]

Fossil, first thoughts, drop temporal and Aegis as powergaming, put in locked finishing moves. Pretty much anything decent with magical combat is already overpowered. Shields on top of 90% of the useful talents from Brawler is a bit much.

ETA: On further play, Aegis seems more thematically appropriate than praying for Celestial Light like every skeleton played EVER. Tempted to say maybe start it locked, though, so it's a choice like celestial would be. Time also seems thematically appropriate, but that time shield would just be too much. Skell shield plus runes, plus aegis is way more than any other brawler could hope for, and I'd personally prefer for addon classes to try to stay balanced around the most similar 'core' classes.

[Doctornull]

Basically it's pretty much exactly the class I've been looking for, but a few points here and there seem tweakable.

Great feedback, thanks!

Yeah I can certainly tweak the numbers for more balance on those talents, and I think I can tweak Timekeeper to be better balanced early-mid game.

In terms of advanced talents, I'm thinking of adding a new advanced tree ("Temporal Assault") which will replace Speed Control.

I like the idea of a non-magic advanced tree.

ETA: On further play, Aegis seems more thematically appropriate than praying for Celestial Light like every skeleton played EVER. Tempted to say maybe start it locked, though, so it's a choice like celestial would be.

Locked Aegis is an interesting idea, but that starter dungeon can be rough without any healing, especially above Normal.

Finishing Moves is not my favorite tree. I'd rather write a new tree ("Stone Fist" or whatever) to consume combo points in interesting ways.

Hmm, the more I think about it, Fossil might not be working without some significant overhaul. Maybe I should disable it until it gets more attention?

Thanks!

[devilindupriest]

Finishing Moves is not my favorite tree. I'd rather write a new tree ("Stone Fist" or whatever) to consume combo points in interesting ways.

Hmm, the more I think about it, Fossil might not be working without some significant overhaul. Maybe I should disable it until it gets more attention?

Thanks!

I agree that skel start is rough going, but that's true for every skel class. Hack'n'back and the starting shield takes care of most of it. Shield, hit, hit, hack'n'back, back up till shield cooldown, repeat.

Overall I really like the Fossil. It feels about on par with Stone Warden in terms of power of a special race-specific class, and I think that's a good balance. Aegis really does help, but it helps so much I know I'd feel comfortable sweating till 20 (gotta take stone at 10 to really get rolling) to get it. And it's not like skel can't spend generics for 20 levels waiting. I just feel like the difficulty of skels and the desperate need for celestial light (or in this case thematically, Aegis) is part of the races annoying charm. I DO think it needs something to do with combo points, and that's unfortunate since we're looking at 1 required unlock as is, or 2 if aegis was locked. Potentially. Potentially.... Instead of writing a locked finisher category for it, I might suggest writing a finisher/enhancement category all of it's own to replace Magical Combat. Maybe instead of proc on hit (which yeah, it's really really tasty with brawler) give it proc on cast like reaver. As it is, the class is very very bump attack heavy, that might make it more dynamic. And then you could give it some kind of +damage or +APR sustain like fire hands or temporal folding and otherwise fill in something you'd like it to have. A passive or sustain tier 1 that gives it a damage boost and the proc, a finisher, an activatable, a 2nd finisher would be what I'd think of.

Anyway, I don't think it needs to be disabled, but yeah, it's kind of in a rough state. It's got a core of great ideas and good symmetry but at the moment is 90% rush/backhand then bump.