Hexagons

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Indeed. Would almost be a full new game to enjoy. I'd deeply love trying out this. (Though I'd love for it to get tiles... ToME just doesn't look right in Ascii... At least tiles for the monsters, if not terrain, should still be feasible.

[tiger_eye]

Although not perfect, I had modified the pretty tile rules for hex in the addon I made for b38. Here is the world map using Shockbolt tiles (note that the minimap properly reflects the hex map too!):



Here is almost the same image using ascii:



These were in one of the threads I linked to above.

[MalReynolds]

Just a stupid question from a non-LUA person: is it possible to have only ONE zone be hexagons? That is, when you walk into a zone, you are suddenly in hexland?

That would be a spectacular, and shocking, shift for a starter zone or optional zone for some class with an interest in the structure or reality, like paradoxicals. It would get hexagons into the game without forcing everyone to use them all the time, or making a niche add-on (or it might contribute to interest in a non-niche add-on).

I just don't know if having a single zone be hex-based would be possible, or worth the trouble, from a programming standpoint....but it would be pretty fantastic.

[Doctornull]

Just a stupid question from a non-LUA person: is it possible to have only ONE zone be hexagons? That is, when you walk into a zone, you are suddenly in hexland?

That would be a spectacular, and shocking, shift for a starter zone or optional zone for some class with an interest in the structure or reality, like paradoxicals. It would get hexagons into the game without forcing everyone to use them all the time, or making a niche add-on (or it might contribute to interest in a non-niche add-on).

I just don't know if having a single zone be hex-based would be possible, or worth the trouble, from a programming standpoint....but it would be pretty fantastic.

Programming might be easy or hard, but the UI and user experience sound difficult to handle intuitively.

You'd need a different number of movement keys for different areas.

If you're not already familiar with hex maps, your area attacks might not follow the patterns you expect, and so you'd have to re-learn how to use some of them.

That said, I'm totally down to test even one area in hex, but I think it'd be better to convert as much of the game as possible, and to aim for having the whole game use hex maps.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I'll take what I cna get. Hexs now, hexs fast.

Movement seems fairly intuitive, 789, and 123 on the numpad. 5 for wait. 4/6 either not used, or double move to move laterally.(Or, depending on hex orientation, 147 and 369 to move.)

I cna't see area of effect being radically different for hexs, though cones might look funny. I still want this asap. One area (and it would be a great fit for an alternate paradox/archmage start, or an alternate temporal rift for everyone) or every area, I'll be happy!

But if it's only one area, I'm going to demand MORE!!

[morganp]

Demon portal!

[lukep]

Hexagonal Infinite Dungeon?

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Hexagonal Infinite Dungeon?

THIS!!!!^

Everyone listen to this guy, he's got good ideas!

[tiger_eye]

Hexagonal Infinite Dungeon?

Aha, good idea!

Movement seems fairly intuitive, 789, and 123 on the numpad. 5 for wait. 4/6 either not used, or double move to move laterally.

Yup! There is (or can be) some zig-zag logic that makes moving east/west with 4 and 6 pretty intuitive too. There's also a "wall slide" option that makes manual movement with the keyboard even more painless.

Just a stupid question from a non-LUA person: is it possible to have only ONE zone be hexagons? That is, when you walk into a zone, you are suddenly in hexland?

Yeah, that's certainly possible, and even easy to do. A fixed map is probably best, and I had even hacked a hex option into the "tiled" program, which can be used to make t-engine maps. The last I heard, though, DarkGod wasn't fond of this idea, but that was a while ago.

Hum, and I don't recall whether FoV can be symmetric for hex grids not. If not, then just a little more work is needed.

Crap: symmetric FoV system for hex grids is not quite finished. The FoV part is finished and works perfectly when symmetry is chosen, but lines (or LoS) isn't quite done. I'll dig through my previous work to see if I ever finished this.

On the plus side, we can still use the original, asymmetric FoV system for hex grids.

[tiger_eye]

Interested in playing ToME with hexagonal grids? Then please help make it a reality! This is officially a call for contributors and for volunteers who can provide feedback.

There was a "tome-hex" addon for beta-38 that demonstrated it is feasible to play ToME with hex grids. It worked, but it was not well polished, and it needs updated.

There are many contributions--small and large--that can be made. Interested in algorithmic level generation? How about designing fixed-maps by hand, which requires little coding expertise? Want to become more familiar with T-Engine and ToME4? With help, it shouldn't take long to have a fully playable addon, which will allow more feedback. I'm sure there will be many additional tweaks, fixes, and quality of life improvements that can be made to provide the best game-playing experience, and I can't do it by myself!

In order to collaborate, I would like to use a wiki to maintain a list of things to do. I believe debunny has already started a list. As for code, I plan to make a git branch that others may use and contribute to.

My current tasks include:

1. Finishing symmetric FoV/LoS for hexagonal grids
2. "ASCII with background" graphical option to show hexagons instead of rectangles

I've made solid progress on each of these tasks! Below shows hexagonal grids with ASCII:


Click here for fullsize image

If you are interested, then please say so, and you are welcome to join us on IRC so we may discuss how to make tome-hex actually happen

[eronarn]

Interested in playing ToME with hexagonal grids? Then please help make it a reality! This is officially a call for contributors and for volunteers who can provide feedback.

Feedback: you're completely awesome.

More substantively, check out Hydra Slayer, where distance metric is a "birth option". You can pick from 4 (Manhattan - no diagonal movement!), 6 (hexagonal), or 8 (Chebyshev, or "chess"). ToME currently uses a non-Euclidean 8, where moving diagonally takes the same amount of time but does affect distance. (If it were using Chebyshev, AOEs would be square at all sizes!)

As for myself, I've been working on a hex roguelike for a while now. I'm very interested in the approach that you take to symmetric FOV/LOS (some approaches port well and others don't), and likewise with other issues like game balance, rendering, or coordinate systems. (You can actually do a three-axis system, which has the interesting property that coordinates unambiguously point to a hex, but don't do so uniquely (i.e., there are an infinite set of coordinates that map to each hex!)).



I opted for E/W aligned hexagons because they work better in console. While that's not really a problem in TE4, it might be visually nicer to align it that way anyways because monsters tend to be skinny rather than wide. I guess you could make it a player choice, though - or even allow rotating in-game, if you write your code flexibly enough.

Anyways, I'd be glad to contribute some hexagonal level generation algorithms once I get to that stage in my own game!

[lukep]

If you are interested, then please say so, and you are welcome to join us on IRC so we may discuss how to make tome-hex actually happen

Count me in. I probably won't be much help with the algorithm side of things, but I can make fixed maps, rooms, and possibly convert vaults.

[Doctornull]

Interested in playing ToME with hexagonal grids? Then please help make it a reality!

I want you to hex me as hard as you can.