Merge marauder, berserker, and bulwark

[Mewtarthio]

The Arcane Blade serves as a useful note to the newbies that not all classes are as straightforward as a Bulwark or Alchemist. I think it's a good idea to show off the range of complexities that ToME offers right off the bat. I don't see what purpose sticking the AB behind a trivial unlock would serve (unless you've actually heard some complaints from would-be players who pick AB first, find it too complicated, and write off the game entirely as a result).

[The Revanchist]

...Is it worth noting that I did?

I (obviously) returned, but there as an initial period where I got turned away by the complexity. Then I realized:
That sort of complexity is what I want in a game.


I vote to not restrict the Arcane Blade, or for that matter, merge the similar melee classes. So that I can contribute something, though, I think a new-player oriented Psion might be nice. Unless there's solid reason to not, which, with two to unlock, may well be.

[Jurriaan]

The difference between berserkers and marauders is, IMVHO, in the regeneration.
Berserkers are all about insane rage, rah-rah-more-more-I-wont-stop while marauders are more coldly calculating 'how much do I have to hit to get at the loot' and tactical retreats.

So if the differences aren't clear enough already, perhaps berserkers need some boosting when playing without or with less armour?

I must admit the vision of my winning Shalore Berserker rushing around the battlefield wearing a plate armour, boots and a cloak is somewhat strange.

It'd be really nice if it were possible to have berserkers more or less obligated to keep on killing once started.
I don't agree marauders need a life spike; they are not about staying power. Berserkers are.

[The Revanchist]

Perhaps the Berserker, in their killing rage, get addicted to the killing, and suffer "withdrawal" after x turns without killing/injuring/whatever. Although that makes it function very similar to Hate...

[Tharsonius]

i thought berserker and bulwark were fighter class before, merged. i vote against merging any classes, since the quantity of them hooked me into the game. and theres also classes which seem so boring that i dont even try them (alchemist, summoner).

i failed alot with rogue characters when i started the game, and i dont think the arcane blade is so hard for a beginner. the difficulty is to make a build viable for lvl 35+ - the beginning till the master is much easier for an arcane blade than a rogue imo. and thats the part of the game newbies play. many players trying tome already know more complex skill systems from other games, and personally i find it easier to play the mage classes than melee ones. they just fit my playstyle.

i dont have much experience with marauder and berserker only mid game, but id suggest reworking killing blow/sunder armor/sunder arms. killing blow ought to work in combo with second wind from warcries, but it doesnt because second wind is bad as a usable skill, and much better from gloves "on hit" proc from flexible combat. also the effect of killing blow isnt strong enough to justify wasting all your stamina.
maybe make it a multi hit skill @ lvl 5 which eats one of your active buffs, and strikes x times while using xx% stamina for each blow. the buff should be on a berserker only tree(warcries?), and synergize with second wind (reset cooldown maybe). just a random idea.
maybe rework the other warcries too - its the main diff between berserker and marauder now tree-wise.

picking up on the idea from revanchist it could be just a nice combo with some small buff warcry, which allows u to use that new killing blow only after u killed 4 enemies in 3 turns or sth like that. this also gives the opportunity of killing blow beeing a little OP because u cant use it vs single bosses without enemies around.


the bulwark seems ok as it is. any changes should be done to that shield defense tree i assume.

but the main problem here is that dual wielding is too strong at the moment, because of:

flexible combat, rings of focus/greater weapon focus, even stronger egos from 1.10 like gloom dmg on hit which work better with more hits (and considering gloom can stun stun immunes? (not sure) its a real issue of balance.

[Davion Fuxa]

I must admit the vision of my winning Shalore Berserker rushing around the battlefield wearing a plate armour, boots and a cloak is somewhat strange.

It'd be really nice if it were possible to have berserkers more or less obligated to keep on killing once started.
I don't agree marauders need a life spike; they are not about staying power. Berserkers are.

I don't see anything strange regarding your vision of a Shalore Berserker, my first win recorded was of course the Shalore Berserker.

[Jurriaan]

Well, when I think of a berserker, some half-naked Scotsman with a very large sword comes to mind. Anyway, what would happen if the berserker got a low-level permanent lure with some buffs? Say 1-2 squares away, or not continuously? I agree that sunder armour, sunder arms and blood frenzy are kind of weak. The whole concept is to overpower the enemy by brute force, so sunder armour/sunder arms isn't needed and the bonus from blood frenzy just isn't worth it.

The lure would keep him/her fighting, if the buffs were worth it.

[Faeryan]

Can't exactly remember Berserker playstyle even though I've played one.
I would imagine some buffs to Berserker for adjacent enemies (maybe increased to radius of 2-3 via skilling) and/or that Cursed type thing in which your buffs would grow each turn you get hit.

The more I'm thinking about it the more I can't but to think Cursed plays quite a bit like my ideal Berserker. Wonder if it'd be smart to move some Cursed stuff over to Berserker instead.

[snoop]

Berzerker already has at least two skills that encourage continued carnage, there's the one that increases (phys power? strength? can't remember) with each kill for some rounds and the one that increases regen with each critical. There were many times that I would seek out a bunch of weak enemies and unleash a Death Dance to power up for a boss fight, which seems like a very berzerker-y thing to do. So that's there already, but I would not be against some other similar skills being added.

[snoop]

How 'bout a sustain that increases regen/heal mod the less fatigued you are?

[Tharsonius]

Berzerker already has at least two skills that encourage continued carnage, there's the one that increases (phys power? strength? can't remember) with each kill for some rounds and the one that increases regen with each critical. There were many times that I would seek out a bunch of weak enemies and unleash a Death Dance to power up for a boss fight, which seems like a very berzerker-y thing to do. So that's there already, but I would not be against some other similar skills being added.

berserker should be really more offensive IMO, boosting regen like recently done doesnt fit his main defensive skill - unstoppable.
its my stubborn opinion that removing that regen again and centering the class around unstoppable would be better for a unique playing experience of this class. and the second wind/killing blow combo obviously was designed to work like i described it - but doesnt. why destroy all progress by merging the classes again, when instead it can be rebalanced with few effort to unique playstyles?

also the berserker has tons of skills which are close to useless. its a 1build class if ure looking at major build differences. its not a weak class but it could be made more interesting.

the fatigue thing does conflict with of the dragon armors which are desirable even with mediocre stats for a berserker.

[Davion Fuxa]

also the berserker has tons of skills which are close to useless. its a 1build class if ure looking at major build differences. its not a weak class but it could be made more interesting.

It is worth pointing out that keeping the skills limited on a newbie class shouldn't be seen as a bad thing - playing the Anorithil currently and I'm noticing that even though I'm playing it blind it is very easy to play because of the minimal talent choice it has.

That said, I see nothing wrong with buffing useless skills so that they have a bit more power to them.