Details & Doodads

[Razakai]

When playing the game, one of the biggest problems I find with areas is that many of them end up feeling rather same-y. Take for example, Kor'pul, Dreadfell, Halfling Ruins, Rhaloren Camp and Dark Crypt. Despite them, lorewise, being very distinct areas, they feel absolutely identical in every way except a few set rooms/bosses and enemy type (admittedly, the most important things). What would make each zone feel more distinctive is more interactive and non-interactive doodads and alternate tiles. For example, being a military camp, RC could have barrack rooms with bunkbeds, armories with weapon/armor racks that can be raided for loot and so on. Kor'pul, with it's history of ancient magic, could have small libraries with bookshelves containing lore and runes, and ruined alchemy labs with ingredients or infusions. You could further increase the immersion by making rooms like these act as minivaults, with partially guarenteed spawns (so skeletal mages guarding the libraries, masses of guards inside barracks etc). This would make zones feel alot more distinct and more 'realistic'. Is this something viable, or would it be far too much effort for the artists of the game?

[rexorcorum]

Sounds like fun ,
Could you perhaps make a list with ideas for doodads for the different zones as a starting reference for me? I'll make some of my own, for sure. Oh, and add also the 3 non-overhauled prides in the mix, would you?

Your friendly Eyal artist (guided by DG's whip to this thread )

[HousePet]

More vaults/pits/features!

[The Revanchist]

I think it'd go a long way in giving them distinction. The OP is right, similar zones can feel pretty bland, despite, again, huge difference lore-wise.

[PureQuestion]

Oh, and add also the 3 non-overhauled prides in the mix, would you?

Psh. One of them (Grushnak) was always distinct.

Worry about the other two.

[Darkmere]

I'll take a stab at it. Hmm, Rhaloren Camp, Kor'pul, Dreadfel, Halfling Ruins, Dark Crypt, Vor, Gorbat.

Rhaloren:
Make the buildings outside thinner and wooden, like the walls in the Lost Man dream.
Small, easy vaults with mostly low-tier loot could be "armories" with slightly stronger than average guards.

Kor'pul:
Random bookshelves or rare glowing ritual runes on the floor. (perhaps very minor 1-tile spellblaze scar effect?)
Libraries with primarily runes of various types, skelemage guards.

Dreadfel:
Chance to spawn decorative graves, blockier stone texture? The abundance of strong undead in big packs make this feel pretty distinct to me already.

Halfling Ruins:
(1) It's the river source, so make the top-level have some rocky ground, but with broken stone buildings (like the Daikara vaults, but broken and more weathered), and if possible a lake/river/water feature somewhere. Mountain lions mixed in with the undead?
(2) Daikara rocks with cave-dirt floor, "mountain cave" type tileset that leads to
(3) the labs/cells. focus on smaller individual rooms with shackles or the random broken research table?

Dark Crypt:
Area-specific 2- or 3-tile sealed vaults that have summoning circles in the floor with demons in them? Chance to rarely spawn minor demons among the cultists? That's what Melinda was for, after all.
Also the place needs more candles in random places, like in the undead starter circle.... actually that would be great for the vaults. Kick over the candles to unleash what's inside?

Vor Pride:
More books, scrolls, rune storehouses, floor runes? Random chance for magic elementals?

Gorbat Pride:
emphasis on larger, open areas. Dragons are big, they'd need big areas. Maybe put it in the mountains but more open than Daikara? Or the mountain cave set?

[rexorcorum]

Oh, and add also the 3 non-overhauled prides in the mix, would you?

Psh. One of them (Grushnak) was always distinct.
Worry about the other two.

Pardon me , Pure, I meant something more in the lines of adding some distinct graphical / cosmetic / flavour goodies to the tileset
Having said that, the time seams right to implement an old idea, so I'm open for suggestions for the banners of the 4 prides.

[Razakai]

This could be a good community thread to brainstorm ideas for all zones. This might not be the thread for it, but I'll put some ideas for encounters and not-quite-vaults in too, as they relate to the whole 'make zones more detailed'. That's something I can actually code, so I might take a stab at putting in some of these when I have time.

Forest Areas (Old Forest, Trollmire, Norgos etc):
Being forests, these are pretty fine already. I did see someone earlier in this subforum post an idea for more graphical doodads on the tiles, such as rocks, plants, streams etc. Perhaps have a couple extra tree models just for variety's sake? Or herbs! Small bits of foliage that, if used (eaten), grant a random beneficial or negative effect. Campsites might be interesting too, have a little campfire in a clearing, a tent (that if disturbed may grant loot or an angry adventurer) and some random bags and belongings scattered around. I think these zones in general could do with lots more minivaults, like the random ruins in Trollmire, or maybe some tiny extra zones like a bear cave in the same vein as the thief/dragon cave.

Crystal Cave:
This is a tough one as it's not exactly something we have a real life reference point for. Perhaps some underground streams and lakes that could spawn aquatic mobs. Some distinctive, unique crystals (not the mob) that project an aura effect or can be interacted with to do... stuff. Caves are kinda hard to make too distinct.

Rhaloren Camp:
Being a lived in area, furniture would be nice. Tables, chairs, beds, lamps, any random stuff you can think of to make it feel like a more lived in area. Supply rooms with crates of (useless, for us) supplies. As for gameplay affecting things, weapon/armor racks that contain loot (while not terribly different from placing it on the ground, it does make it feel more 'real'), guard rooms that soldiers patrol between, maybe other 'military' things. What could be interesting is the chance of a 'command room' that contains a table with a map of attack plans on it, guarded by stronger guards. The map could be a lootable quest item that you can turn in to a town for a reward. Also, being a military camp, I think the entrance should be guarded like a weaker version of the prides (substantially weaker due to low levels).

Heart of the Gloom:
Absolutely no idea. Anyone got any ideas for it?

Kor'pul:
Bookshelf tiles that contain lore/infusions guarded by skeletal mages, as part of a library. You can even have small libraries, or the chance of a massive library that takes up most of a zone with a unique spawn in it. Alchemy labs with broken bottles, strange apparatus and so on, maybe put some necromantic horrors or the like in it, let players scavenge for ingredients. Broken furniture, tattered tapestries. Kor experimented on stuff so maybe some creepy experiment rooms with stone slabs, shackles etc? There'd need to be prisons too, you could have a transparent wall of metal bars, cells with undead in them.

Maze:
Pretty hard to give variety, considering this place is supposed to be miles of featureless walls. Perhaps leave behind some skeletal remains of previous adventurers, and give wall tiles scrawled notes, direction arrows or chalk lines. Ball of string on the ground, for the myth reference. Seeing as there's bands of bandits in the maze I presume they'd need some sort of supplies, so maybe have a small living area with bedrolls, crates of food etc?

Lake of Nur:
This is supposed to be Sher'tul (and Lovecraft), so let's make it creepy. Weird symbols on walls, strange architecture, inexplicable objects. I can't currently look it up, but I expect any concept art for Lovecraftian areas (like the ancient city in Eternal Darkness) would be a great reference point.

That's all for now, but I'll add more as I think of it.

In addition, this might be a little out-of-scope for this topic but one thing I'd like to see is for every level of a zone to have at least 1 'exciting' thing. Whether that be a vault, a minivault, a random encounter like the orbs or graves etc.

[rexorcorum]

Ok, thanks for the brainstorming and listing . These days I'll start drawing things and will post them here.

Cheers!

[Zonk]

I've been suggesting for a while that the prides SHOULD feel more distinct, both layout and graphics wise. Grushnak is already 'militirazed', and Vor well, it has the armoury(although I think some 'mage towers'might help a bit), but as for the necro and wilder pride, not sure.


The Necro one could perhaps have more of a dark feel in its tileset. Bones strewn on the ground, bone walls... The Wilder one, it perhaps should have more open space and look more like a open-air camp than a proper town.

[The Revanchist]

On Norgos Lair:
We haven't thought of Bear Dens yet? Why not? We could have a small chance to generate an unlit, cave-tileset room, maybe 3-6 tiles long and wide. And of course, have anywhere from one bear, to a family of bears living in it. (Rare status optional)


On Trollmire:
Do reduce the risk of making more of the same, I won't suggest troll-dens. Instead, I'd like to propose more swamp-related themes. More of a chance of bogwater, the occasional turtle... Giant frogs?


On Heart of the Gloom:
Is it not distinct already? I think only the Deep Bellow even uses the same tiles... That being said, it's thematically my favourite start-zone.


On Scintillating Caves:
Just general... unnatural organization works here. It isn't a "normal" cave anymore (if it ever was), so lets reflect that! Bizarre room shapes, dead end paths, other such niceties...

PS: Just discovered that someone did mention bear dens... Sorry about that.

[Razakai]

There can never be too many mentions of bears.
When I say distinct, I also kind of mean making zones feel slightly more 'logical'. So rather than totally random pathways and featureless rooms, be able to identify things. e.g. my examples for Rhaloren Camp, players ought to be able to think 'oh this must be a barracks, this is a storeroom, here's a meeting area...' to a degree. With HotG it's certainly a distinctive, well themed area but it does look a little too much like Deep Bellow and the warrior orc pride. Some unique flavour and cosmetic stuff could be nice. I'm guessing the intent is a 'corrupted forest' theme, so maybe use something like Felwood from Warcraft as an idea. Pools of corrupted water, trees warped into twisted faces, fungi that spreads gloom when disturbed, etc. Rather than 'mushroomy tree corridor, open area, mushroomy tree corridor, repeat'.
As for more suggestions:

Daikara:
Rather than just lots of mountains, maybe mix it up a bit and have things like frozen lakes, small pools and streams, little forests and so on. I wonder if Snow Giants could get some unique appearence for their villages? Make them stand out abit from every other building.

Dreadfell:
Implement everything from Castlevania.
Or for more detail, just think of everything you'd typically see in a 'vampire castle'. I can't see The Master living in squalour, so let's put in some elaborate dining rooms, luxurious rugs, wall hangings, big stained glass windows, chandeliers and candelabras, gargoyle statues etc. Probably needs an organ too, every good vampire castle has one. Could definately do with some more elaborate wall and floor textures in places, anything gothic. And The Master himself deserves a proper throne room, I'm imagining it looking exactly like Dracula's throne room in Symphony of the Night.

[The Revanchist]

I think turning Dreadfell from... dreadfell... into something befitting The Master's opulence would be great. Not to overcomplicate, but perhaps have the decoration turn more elaborate as you ascend the tower. Culminating, of course, at the top, where he has gone overboard in his card carrying villainy. Have (suspiciously) empty shackles line the walls, banners and portraits of himself lining more of the walls, and, in a semi-random location (maybe?) have the entrance to his "Throne Room", which is filled with trophies of his power. And maybe even a huge organ against one wall. (With a skeleton playing it? If we do that, we'd have to change the music...). Would he sit on the throne?

Also, for Heart of the Gloom, perhaps have some "pockets" of corruption, where stepping there incurs quite a few nasty (but nonlethal) effects, like reduced vision, healing and power? Or perhaps the pockets meander around slowly? That'd be... creepier.

[rexorcorum]

The Necro one could perhaps have more of a dark feel in its tileset. Bones strewn on the ground, bone walls...

But, but ... the Rak'Shor Pride already has a bonewall tileset! Hell, that was my initiation in DG's world of constant whipping and agony .

Also, great ideas guys, keep them coming!

[Zonk]

But, but ... the Rak'Shor Pride already has a bonewall tileset! Hell, that was my initiation in DG's world of constant whipping and agony .

Ops, I did half-remember bone walls. Still, it could be even MORE boney(but not too much, we don't want it to end up silly)

And again, the Wilder pride can use something. Perhaps trees and a greener look?