please discuss armour, defense, and attack ideas here

[lukep]

I have three issues with your proposed system, although two can be overcome with a relatively small amount of effort. The first is that it would require a rework of loot/ego items and/or skills to give much higher physical resist to characters. It isn't unusual for my characters to have 50 armour and 3% physical resist (including resist all), and without a lot of good equipment that boosts physical resist, this system makes armour much less powerful. The second is that physical immune mobs would need infinite armour to actually be physical immune, but that's easy to fix. The third, and most serious issue is that it artificiality weakens physical resist compared to all of the other forms of resistance by giving it a cap to the reduction.

[tiger_eye]

hmm, I suppose that was poor word choice on my behalf. PhysResist is a parameter for the armour system, and is separate from physical resistance. Obviously, it might be better to call it something like Hardiness ( ). But you're correct on one point, though: monsters with high Armour ought to have comparable Hardiness, too.

[lukep]

Ah, sounds much better, though I'm still not sure about a fifth attribute for defending from physical attacks (Armour, defense, ranged defense, physical resistance, and now hardiness).

[tiger_eye]

Yeah, I'm still undecided on having an extra armour parameter, lukep. I'm not sure if it's an unnecessary complication or an interesting complexity. Adding it to the game is easy enough, though.

So, in the spirit of being informative and helpful... it's time for plots!

I'm actually plotting two different possible functions that behave similarly. Both use Hardiness as a percentage damage reduction limit and Armour as an absolute damage reduction limit. Hence, both absorb all damage if and only if "Hardiness = 100" and "Armour >= Damage"

Please note that in the below plots, I use "P_res = Hardiness / 100" and contours are every 5%.

AB_fixed_dam25.png (70.54 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

AB_fixed_dam100.png (82.99 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

AB_fixed_dam400.png (48.79 KiB) Viewed 3653 times

Thoughts? Preferences?

[Canderel]

At 400 damage armour doesn't help you much heh? What is the exact damage I'll take at 100 armour with 1 P_res?

Also, this is before physical resist comes in right? So after this it is reduced by another X% where X is my physical resist?

[Canderel]

OK... I had a discussion on IRC.

And IMO this will not be beneficial to the player at all. It's like the old flat reduction system, only worse.

Eg from IRC:

Reenen: Ok so lets say I have 30 armour level 10 char, and just my default 30 hardiness... Now I get hit for 30 physical by a troll... so min(30,30*0.3/100) (I am assuming 0.3 there)
tiger_eye: it would deal 21 damage (reduce by 30*.3 = 9)

Seriously? 30 armour is a *lot* early game, and I can only take 9 damage off that attack. Also, my maximum damage reduction is 30. Not a lot for late game, where in the current system 400 damage would be reduced to 296 damage because of 30 armour and now it's down to 370 damage.

[Grey]

Pretty as the graphs are I think we need more real examples like this to investigate any proposed system.

[Bahndriin]

Have this been implemented? Judging from the fashion in which my late character died, it looks like it have been implemented.

[lukep]

More or less. Armour and Hardiness has been in the game for a couple of years now, relatively unchanged.

Just to clarify: you block a maximum of (armour hardiness)% of a melee blow, up to (armour) points. If you want good defense, you need both.