How exactly does Arcane Premonition (66% all resist) work?

[Istrebitel]

How does the Prodigy called Arcane Premonition exactly work? What happens when I learn it:

1) Is my All Resist now equal to 66% Arcane Resist?
2) Is every resist except Arcane and All now equal to 66% Arcane Resist?
2) Is every resist except Arcane now equal to 66% Arcane Resist?

[darkgod]

Everything except arcane is now 66% of the arcane value

[SageAcrin]

And the other 33% is the resist that would have been there previously.

So your resists don't go down, unless you had a high resist there normally and a low Arcane resist. But they do go down, in that particular case.

[The Revanchist]

BUT you need a high arcane resist in the first place to get the talent, I believe. So unless you're using temporary equipment, you ought to be fine.

[Istrebitel]

Really, any resistance?
So, any resist except Arcane resist becomes useless to me, including All Resist? Meaning, for example, 15% from generic talent (Thick Skin I believe) is a waste, and Premonition (15% resist to incoming spell) is a waste?
Does this also mean that it actually gets applied twice, because both specific Resist and All Resist are applied in all cases (so, for example, a physical attack gets reduced by 66% of Arcane resist because my Physical Resist is equal to 66% arcane, and then again by 66% of remaining, because my All Resist is equal to 66% arcane)?

[SadistSquirrel]

He does pose a good point. It comes down to how All Resist works. I have a feeling that it works like this.

1000 Cold damage is caused. Assuming the impossible 100% Arcane Resistance is achieved, this means your Cold Resistance is 66%.

This 66% lowers the damage to (by my bad maths), 330.

To this 330 is where your next 66% Resistance is applied, in this case All Resistance.

This should, in theory, bring the damage to 108.

It's multiplicative, rather than additive, so rather than 132% Resistance, you get 66% of 66%. Which, if my maths are correct, is still some incredible resistance.

[Theyleon]

All resist is not a resistance type, it is a character sheet convenience. It is added into all other resist types, and with the prodigy in question, would already be taken into account in regards to your arcane resistance.

[Istrebitel]

2 SadistSquirrel
Yes I understand it's multiplicative. I was wondering (and surprised) about it working twice, not about it exceeding 100%

2 Theyleon
I see... so, All Resist is not included in the list of Resistances, and thus, all my non-Arcane Resistances become 66% of Arcane, while All Resist remains as it is?

[tylor]

"Resist All" in character description should actually read "All Other Resists"
Because for listed resists, it is already factored in.

[Istrebitel]

O_o

So... There is no "Resist All" stat? Resist All just adds this percentage to all other resists? Meaning, with Arcane Premonition I get less effect from Resist All because it gets multiplied by 66% for resists other than arcane resist?

[SageAcrin]

Okay, here's how it works.

All resistance is factored into the various resists as a division effect, not an additive effect.

For example, let's say you have 50% All resistance, and 50% of, say, Fire resistance.

You don't resist 100% of the damage(which would, by default, usually cap at 70%), because it's not additive. You resist 50% of the damage, thanks to All Resistance, then you resist 50% of the remainder, thanks to the Fire resistance. This is listed at 75%-the tooltip factors in this impact, you don't have to. Of course, it still caps at 70%.

Aether Permeation treats all damage that comes in(sorta, there's an exception) as being 66% Arcane, and 33% whatever it was before, basically. (Mechanically it's a function of resistance recalculation, IIRC, but I'm trying to describe its effect so that it's more intuitive.)

All resistance, as it buffs all resists, will buff your resistance at the listed amount to all of it. As it's either buffing your resistance to Arcane(The 66% of the effect), or your resistance to its normal element(the 33%).

The exception comes in in a small way; For the attacker, their resistance penetration is calculated as though the attack was fully of the element(s) it started out as. They don't need Arcane Resistance Penetration to get through your Arcane resistance, just penetration of the starting element, which will pierce your Arcane resistance.

(This is so Aether Permeation doesn't imbalancingly render basically most resistance penetration useless. As enemies/PCs are rarely gearing for elemental penetration of elements they don't use.)

I think that clears up everything?

[tylor]

After reading source code.

First. There is no prodigy named "Arcane Premonition". It's "Aether Permeation"

Second. It's exactly what is written on tin (and what Dark God said). All your non-arcane resistance are now 66% of your (capped) arcane resistance. For example, if you have maximum arcane resistance (70%, unless you somehow raise resistance cap), then all arcane damage will be multiplied by 0.3, and any other damage type by 0.538

Code: Select all

uberTalent{
	name = "Aether Permeation",
	mode = "passive",
	require = { special={desc="Have at least 25% arcane damage reduction and have been exposed to the void of space", fct=function(self)
		return (game.state.birth.ignore_prodigies_special_reqs or self:attr("planetary_orbit")) and self:combatGetResist(DamageType.ARCANE) >= 25
	end} },
	on_learn = function(self, t)
		local ret = {}
		self:talentTemporaryValue(ret, "force_use_resist", DamageType.ARCANE)
		self:talentTemporaryValue(ret, "force_use_resist_percent", 66)
		return ret
	end,
	on_unlearn = function(self, t)
	end,
	info = function(self, t)
		return ([[You manifest a thin layer of aether all around you. Any attack passing through it will check arcane resistance instead of the incoming damage resistance.
		In effect, all of your resistances are equal to 66%% of your arcane resistance.]])
		:format()
	end,
} 

--- Returns the resistance
function _M:combatGetResist(type)
	local power = 100
	if self.force_use_resist and self.force_use_resist ~= type then 
		type = self.force_use_resist 
		power = self.force_use_resist_percent or 100
	end

	local a = math.min((self.resists.all or 0) / 100,1) -- Prevent large numbers from inverting the resist formulas
	local b = math.min((self.resists[type] or 0) / 100,1)
	local r = math.min(100 * (1 - (1 - a) * (1 - b)), (self.resists_cap.all or 0) + (self.resists_cap[type] or 0))
	return r * power / 100
end

Could not find the part about how resist penetration work in this case.

[Istrebitel]

So... there IS resistance to everything (All Resist) in the game, but for player convinience it is included in every other resistance shown on the Character screen, with all percentages already applied correctly, to show exactly how much will the incoming damage be reduced by.

Right?

[Robsoie]

It's very hard to be able to get high Arcane resistance as the +res Arcane (or +res Physical) items are really rare in the game.

While it's not impossible at all to get several other resistances at their max 70% (if you don't have +cap item) as there are a lot of item providing +res

So let's take this example : i have 70% res Fire and managed luckily to get 50% res Arcane, now i take the prodigy and if i understand the description:

In effect, all of your resistances are equal to 66% of your arcane resistance.

It means now that my fire resistance is 50*66% = 33% ?
I went from 70% res fire to 33% res fire because i took a prodigy ?

Is that prodigy really helpful or a great way to cripple your character ?

[Tharsonius]

youre right about ur calculations robsoie imo.

the prodigy isnt always a good choice. it depends on your equipment, and for example for archmage theres some egos that give arcane resistance and other useful stats like mana which can be a good reason to take the prodigy.

so its basically a good prodigy for normal mode where u dont want to change equipment according to enemys, and just have that flat 45% allres engame and not have to worry about them. while its true that u cant raise ur single res very high anymore, the sheer number of resistances can make this a positive trade off, some like mind and light resistance are also pretty hard to stack.

id say being higher and having aetherwalk are 2 plusses, and having other arcane res gear but low other reses - but in general i think the prodigy isnt that good and cauterize/others are almost always better