Adding a Reason to Skip the Breeding Pits

[tylor]

Game is not only encourage you to wipe Pits, but there is also no gameplay justification to feel any empathy for orcs. They are always hostile, and only communicate to telly you they are going to kill you more. I'd rather feel pity for Storm Giants, skeletons or Trolls.

[Zonk]

(there's another thread, though it follows a slightly different direction btw)

I don't see any 'disconnection'.
Assume for a moment that destroying all the Orcs in the Breeding Pits is 100% wrong...you'd be rewarded for performing an evil act. Which might actually be a 'realistic' change from many games were doing the ethically-best thing results in benefits to the PC.

Also, the new-born/young orcs aren't exactly defenceless.

They're broken in that the story is a moral dilemma that isn't reflected in the gameplay. There is nothing but benefit to the extinction of the orcs.

I'm not sure why the gameplay SHOULD reflect this. The point of moral dilemmas(unless you're 100% utilitarian) is that sometimes the 'moral' (in)action can bring about worse results, especially for the person who gets to choose.


I *do* agree away to interact peacefully with the orcs, make an alliance - perhaps with only one pride, based on the player's class/talents - would be very nice. 'Reedem' them in a way.
And more fitting than becoming buddies/pals with Aeryn if you're a Ziguranth!

[darkgod]

The orcs dont need redeeming ! the halflings & humans do

[Grey]

Quotes are from posts starting on page 205 of this thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... id=3457973

I can't see the thread because SA just throws up an obnoxious ad.

Whoever you quoted about the narrative disconnect from the gameplay is missing the point. Yes there is a disconnect, and it's a deliberate one. 99% of games reward you more for being the noble hero, and so people just be noble heroes because that's the most rewarding thing. It's much more interesting when people actually struggle to go with the optimal gameplay choice because it feels morally wrong.

As far as I'm concerned this is a win for ToME. Players feel uncomfortable with a moral choice in a game. How often does that actually happen? For all the complaints about it being too "grimdark" it does seem to be doing the trick!

There certainly shouldn't be an achievement or reward from skipping the pits. The current achievement of "Genocide" is very deliberate in its sarcasm, and any alternate achievement would take away from that. You can leave the pits and just be happier in yourself - is that not worth something?

[snoop]

Dunno if y'all have seen this before but it's certainly relevant:

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/sp ... ine-part-1

edit: actually, part 2 is really the one to check out, but beware spoilers.

[Zeyphor]

I like that ToME isn't afraid to be this dark, and, uh, something else
if this game can have tits(melinda), then this game can have vagina monsters with a million tits or something
this game isn't for kids, and involves concepts like genocide(the weapon), mindrape(death messages), fetish experiments(death messages), nudity, again, melinda, human sacrifice, domination, killing things by hating them, blood monsters, bloodcasting, and the undead
this game is not supposed to be family-friendly
less than 100% of the game is SFW