Is ToME4 a tactical-rpg?

[The Revanchist]

I'm pretty sure ToME uses several "tactical" elements. The entire rogue class springs to mind...*

Stealth, Traps, Luring, the ability to get instagibbed by bosses that you don't prepare for...

I would consider ToME to also have an element of strategy, though. "Strategy" being more about long-term planning.

Does that make it a "Strategic-Tactical-Roguelike-Roleplaying Game"? An STRRPG?

*That isn't to say other classes don't use tactics. Every class seems to have some tactical considerations. Some more than others.

[EatThisShoe]

I think cover and facing are a means to an end in tactical games, but not a requirement. They make positioning matter, and give players a way to gain advantages. But you can just as well have some other mechanic for that purpose, and ToME has plenty. Cover makes more sense in a shooting game, and flanking makes more sense in squad combat or stealth focused games, neither mechanic seems appropriate for ToME, and I've played plenty of tactical RPGs that don't use those mechanics.

Overall I think being a tactical game is about what the gameplay emphasizes, more mechanics that add variety and texture to tactical decision making means the game is tactical. Most games use tactics, but some games emphasize other elements like storytelling, strategic planning, twitch aim and reaction time, exploration, etc. There isn't any single mechanic that when taken away makes the game not tactical, it's the overall interaction between mechanics. A cover/no cover bonus alone is nothing special, but combined with movement and flanking it can create a tactical environment. ToME achieves tactical gameplay through it's own combination of mechanics, cooldowns, action speeds, movement, range, line of sight, stats, enemy talents and cooldowns. Each element interacts, your cooldown makes you question when you use your AE based on enemy range and positioning, and what talents they can use on you, etc.

[Sradac]

I think if there were more level / floor effects it would be a LOT more tactical. The first time you try to adventure in the Abashed Expanse or outside of time, you realize "Oh shit I gotta change my tactics, gravity makes a difference" and that is great.

Also those zones like necrotic auras, the life auras, the disease ones, spellblaze scars, those things are really awesome but they are so few and far between, and dont make enough of a difference to matter.

More swamp terrain in the old forest would be great, that way you could make use of it outside of vaults. Draw your enemies into the swamp to slow them down or poison them.

I'd like to see the sand in the far east areas (and possible sandworm tunnels) matter as well. Reduced movement speed, reduced defense.

More icy terrain from daikara.

Just more stuff that makes me think about not just WHAT I fight and HOW I fight, but also WHERE I fight would be enough to push me over to the "tactical" side of the fence.

[Grey]

Don't get distracted by the word "tactical". When it comes to definitions the individual words lose their meanings easily. "Role-playing game" doesn't really mean a game with role-playing for instance (though some do). "Pen and paper RPG" does not require either pen or paper.

"Tactical RPG" as a term has a special meaning as a genre definition, and generally applies to squad-based turn-based games with detailed terrain and movement and various tactical options. You may think ToME is tactical, and it is of course, but it's a lot more fast-paced than most Tactical RPGs where you have to carefully consider 4 moves at once (for the squad) and how they combine together.

[EatThisShoe]

Grey: The words still matter though. No one calls Civilization a tactical RPG even though it has all the things you described, because it's not an RPG. RPG has a clear understood meaning even though it doesn't explicitly refer to role playing. If you call it a tactical RPG it clearly differentiates itself from games which are tactical but not RPGs, like Frozen Synapse.

ToME itself has more than half of what you listed. It lacks squad based combat (well non-AI controlled squads), and terrain is simple, but still very relevant to tactical decisions. And that only covers the tactical half of the description. As I said before I've played other tactical RPGs where terrain was even less relevant or even simpler, like say Aarklash Legacy or Yggdra Union.

I tried to define tactical RPG by the intent of the game because I don't think there is any single factor which when removed makes a game not a tactical RPG. You can add as many qualifiers which are common in the genre, but there are always examples of games that lack some of those features but are clearly distinguished as being part of the genre.

[Doctornull]

Grey: The words still matter though. No one calls Civilization a tactical RPG even though it has all the things you described, because it's not an RPG. RPG has a clear understood meaning even though it doesn't explicitly refer to role playing.

While you're absolutely correct, it's kind of funny that the Civ4 AIs do act like they're in a role-playing game.

That's one of the only reasons a human can win Civ4 at high levels: the AIs aren't playing to win, they're role-playing.
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[Grey]

Grey: The words still matter though. No one calls Civilization a tactical RPG even though it has all the things you described, because it's not an RPG. RPG has a clear understood meaning even though it doesn't explicitly refer to role playing.

While you're absolutely correct, it's kind of funny that the Civ4 AIs do act like they're in a role-playing game.

That's one of the only reasons a human can win Civ4 at high levels: the AIs aren't playing to win, they're role-playing.
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Clearly what Civ needs is AI civilisations emerging after the computing age and wiping out all the human civilisations.

Actually, that would be a very fun game.... :)

[phantomglider]

TRPGs are stuff like Disgaea, Tactics Ogre, Shining Force, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Fire Emblem. Roguelikes are a lot more similar to typical TRPGs than typical JRPGs, but are still a pretty different beast, and TOME is very firmly on the "roguelike" side of that divide.

So no, TOME is not a TRPG.

[Faeryan]

Just saying that nearly any game with tactical features turns into highly tactical game when played with enough difficulty.
Surely ToME on easy is more of a hack and slash than really tactical adventure.

[HousePet]

Its way more tactical than most hack n slash rpgs.

[Grey]

But it's also more hack and slashy than most tactical RPGs :)

[The Revanchist]

So depending on the difficulty/individual preference and definition, ToME can be anything from a hack-n'-slash roleplay, to a tactical fantasy roguelike? Very... encompassing.

Honestly, though, I couldn't care how "tactical" it is by the textbook definition: A fun game is good, and ToME is a fun game.