For the hate of Amakthel, do something with Magic!

[0player]

Fairly common. They would include: ice, acid blind, lightning daze, maybe fire burn?
These by default use spellpower to apply the effect.

As of recent times, they use max(Spellpower, Mindpower), because poor Wyrmic cannot enjoy them otherwise. Separating Wyrmic damage types from ego ones and making ego ones depend only on Spellpower would be cool, yeah.

Wrong. Many caster builds enjoy plate mails, Reavers are the most obvious case.

Right, forgot about them. My bad. (I wouldn't go with plate on Arcaneblade, but that's just me).

And, most importantly, what do you offer to add? More spell save? Even tripling the amount gained will not change situation much for spelless classes

Well, I'm no game designer. But I specifically said that spell save gain is largely irrelevant as there is ton of lesser egos that grant spell save on literally everything except probably swords. See below for a possible answer to this question and to hybrid-class woes.

I wonder if all the weapon special damage effects which secretly scale with Spellpower is enough of a perk. If that were more visible -- so for example an Acid Blind weapon might show "5 Blinding Acid (spellpower 32)" instead of just "5 Blinding Acid" -- it might be enough to motivate more magical martial characters.

Yeah, it turns out that all arcane egos use Spellpower for their effects' damage and power. Maybe stating this explicitly would help? Also, if we buff this scaling alongside with nerfing Spellpower gain from Magic, we make it even for hybrid caster classes (they get more from weapons, less from spells) and better for spellless classes.

[Strongpoint]

Hm, what if basic (before egos) spellpower given by staffs scaled with Mag while giving less spellpower per point of Mag? then, with boost to other mag effects, hybrids will not go overboard because to enjoy full spellpower they need to go staff and pure mages will not be hurt too much by spellpower reduction

[0player]

Hm, what if basic (before egos) spellpower given by staffs scaled with Mag while giving less spellpower per point of Mag? then, with boost to other mag effects, hybrids will not go overboard because to enjoy full spellpower they need to go staff and pure mages will not be hurt too much by spellpower reduction

The only problem I see with this is that we absolutely bury non-staff temporal wardens with this decision.

[Atarlost]

Should Magic have ever been its own stat? What would be the ramifications of putting spellpower under cunning and increasing the effect of willpower on spell save and getting rid of magic?

[HousePet]

Magic users would be automatic high critical hitters.

[0player]

Should Magic have ever been its own stat? What would be the ramifications of putting spellpower under cunning and increasing the effect of willpower on spell save and getting rid of magic?

Huh, interesting idea. But then, an automatic buff for Anorithils, who get mad uses for crits (think Corona).
I was thinking about renaming Magic to Mysticism and tying juju using and item power scaling to it somehow. We would need to do something with Charm Mastery, for consistency, but that's it.

[Kaja Rainbow]

Should Magic have ever been its own stat? What would be the ramifications of putting spellpower under cunning and increasing the effect of willpower on spell save and getting rid of magic?

Huh, interesting idea. But then, an automatic buff for Anorithils, who get mad uses for crits (think Corona).
I was thinking about renaming Magic to Mysticism and tying juju using and item power scaling to it somehow. We would need to do something with Charm Mastery, for consistency, but that's it.

Magic/Cunning/Constitution is already a standard build for Anorithils. All ditching the Magic stat would do would be to make that Cunning/Constitution. The real concern here is for spellcasters in general--getting both spellpower and increased crits from the same stat would have definite ramifications for them and especially for spellcasting mobs which are already some of the most dangerous in the game.

[Atarlost]

Should Magic have ever been its own stat? What would be the ramifications of putting spellpower under cunning and increasing the effect of willpower on spell save and getting rid of magic?

Huh, interesting idea. But then, an automatic buff for Anorithils, who get mad uses for crits (think Corona).
I was thinking about renaming Magic to Mysticism and tying juju using and item power scaling to it somehow. We would need to do something with Charm Mastery, for consistency, but that's it.

Magic/Cunning/Constitution is already a standard build for Anorithils. All ditching the Magic stat would do would be to make that Cunning/Constitution. The real concern here is for spellcasters in general--getting both spellpower and increased crits from the same stat would have definite ramifications for them and especially for spellcasting mobs which are already some of the most dangerous in the game.

At the same time there are non-magic classes that are basically two stat wonders: both psionics, the oozemancer and the summoner are basically will/cunning. They have less need than most for con because of psi absorption, solipsism, bloated oozes, or fighting via summoned monsters.

The solipsist in particular is as much willpower uber alles as an anorthil would be with spellpower on cunning since it's the size of the pool he uses for abilities, the size of the pool he takes damage to, his physical save, his mental save, his magic save, his mindpower, the unlock stat for all his stuff, and his melee attack and damage stat.

[Sirrocco]

I agree that magic is unused on a lot of builds, but...

- str: I often leave it floored. If you don't care about carrying a lot of stuff (hello magic box!), and you don't fight with str-based weapons (either because you are a caster or because you use staff/mindstar) and you dont' have class trees that require it, then all it's good for is qualifying for armor... and there are a lot of classes that don't need to wear armor (robes can actually be quite nice). Also, gear qualification can let you wear the stuff you really want to wear.

- con: thick skin and a quantity of HP (which may or may not matter). Much less valuable in the endgame than the beginning game. Again, thick skin can work off of gear con just fine.

- dex: There are two things you get from dex - accuracy, and defense. If you don't have some other way of cranking defense, then defense you'll get off of dex doesn't really help you. If you're a caster, or using mindstars, the accuracy no longer applies.

- will: will matters if you care about mindpower and/or mindstars, and if your max resource pool is too small. Admittedly, I almost always play mindpower classes, so I can't speak to this one all that much, but it seems like there are a fair number of classes that don't fit into either pool

- magic: as you say. Matters only to magic power classes, and those wielding staves. Effectively, it's the same as the will thing without the resource pool aspect. Once upon a time, it was a factor in potions and scrolls (back when we had potions and scrolls). I guess the equivalent would be to make it that runes that were stat-dependent were all dependent on magic? I'm not sure that's a change we /should/ be making, but it's not /unreasonable/. (...admittedly, I always found it a bit weird that there were magic-dependent infusions out there)

- cun: okay, admittedly, everyone likes a little crit sometimes, but this is pretty much the only universal stat as I can see it (with con putting in a valiant effort).

[Strongpoint]

I agree that magic is unused on a lot of builds, but...

I think it's important to note that unused on a lot of builds isn't the same as magic can't be used by class. Magic attribute can be very useful with some degree of creativity. I think only oozemancers fail to get good benefit from magic but wouldn't be surprised if someone will manage even that.

Same goes for other attributes, there are ways to make almost any attribute useful

For example there are one build I want to try in 1.05: maxed strength archmage with "I can carry the world" and "Arcane might" prodigies, wearing heavy armor and using channel staff as the main damage dealer.

[Infinitum]

Collapsing the stats into fewer ones and making sure that every build needs an amount of each is a move I could totally get behind if DG would be willing to implement it (maybe along with the glorious removal of stat requirements to further dissuade our present minmaxing conondrum? A boy can dream).