Prodigy Balance Discussion

[Doctornull]

Already fixed, several versions back. Unless it broke again afterwards, in which case I'm about to run an adventurer for an easy win.

Huh. I thought I was running the latest (1.0.4).

What should I be running?

Thanks!

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

That is the latest. But arcane combat + corrupted strength shouldn't proc in an infinite loop anymore. That was supposedly fixed. If you're saying it now works again, I am about to have so much fun that it should be illegal. (Until meeting a rare that instagibs in melee range for several million damage in one turn)

[HousePet]

Also, Shadowblades exist. The current +50% Magic to weapon damage works for Dex-based classes just fine, even for some crazy future Arcane Archer, and might even work for all-Magic, no-Strength staff-bonkers.

I know Shadowblades exist. Was this a for or against comment?

As of the current version every proc can only happen once per turn.

[Doctornull]

Also, Shadowblades exist. The current +50% Magic to weapon damage works for Dex-based classes just fine, even for some crazy future Arcane Archer, and might even work for all-Magic, no-Strength staff-bonkers.

I know Shadowblades exist.

Okay. How do you see them using that prodigy?

As of the current version every proc can only happen once per turn.

Huh, yeah, it looks like there's a once-per-turn storage place. Thanks for the correction.

I've seen Arcane Combat proc 3x per bump attack, but maybe one of them was from my 2nd staff doing its own thing?

[HousePet]

Assuming you are refering to the lack of much of a spellpower bonus from Shadowblades having not much strength: Perhaps it could be based on Accuracy instead? Skill at aiming synergising with your ability to whack with spells?

Multi arcane procs per turn were possible in previous versions.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Wait, so arcane combat with flurry can no longer generate 6 magic spells? Oh come on, that's a horrible nerf for them. I have a sad...

[minmay]

I'm pretty sure Arcane Combat can take effect multiple times per turn. Corrupted Strength cannot.

[Doctornull]

I'm pretty sure Arcane Combat can take effect multiple times per turn. Corrupted Strength cannot.

Right. I've seen Arcane Combat proc 3 times in one turn (which was probably staff bonk -> spell -> corrupted str -> spell, then telekinetic weapon staff bonk -> spell).

Corrupted Strength is limited to 1/turn.

[HousePet]

Could be an error then.

Anyway, 99% of them don't work more than once per turn.

[HousePet]

Was just thinking that half of the existing Spectral Shield effect could be tranfered to Eternal Guard and Spectral Shield could also allow armour to apply to all damage.

So Eternal Guard would be; Increase block duration, unlimited blocks allowed, can block damage types not normally blockable with your shield, but only at half the power(or only half the damage is blockable?).

Spectral Shield would be; Can block damage types not normally blockable with your shield, but only at half the power(or only half the damage is blockable?) and armour damage reduction applies to all damage sources.

[SageAcrin]

Eternal Guard is a Prodigy I consider borderline too good and don't want buffed.

I'm not entirely against Spectral Shield getting the armor trick, but it makes it entirely too obvious a pick still. Eternal/Spectral is already a little too central to most shield-happy characters with one half being obviously lesser.

Interesting idea, though...maybe something like Mystical Cunning or Armour of Shadows could get the armor-to-magic effect instead? It would give the former a generalized use, and the latter isn't so strong that it would become overpowered(particularly if it wasn't a full conversion), and it's fairly thematic in both cases.

[HousePet]

Not sure on Armour of Shadows.
Since the effect is the ability to block 'magical'ish damage with armour it feels like it should be based on a magical stat than a physical one.

Perhaps an aspect of Eternal Guard could be moved to a normal talent?

Prodigies shouldn't be required to use a particular mechanic. :/

[b0rsuk]

I'm surprised to agree with HousePet. But he has a point!

Yes, Eternal Guard is powerful. It is especially powerful with high level shields and low cooldown - I think only then it becomes problematic. But does anyone try bulwarks WITHOUT Eternal Guard ? Blocking is quite sucky. You spend a turn and *hope* for a counterstrike, there are several things that can go wrong. You can't shield yourself while using an infusion, shield yourself while attacking, shield while making retreat etc.

So yeah, Eternal Guard is pretty much required to make Block good, and certainly - to make it fun. I'm for making Eternal Guard a part of ordinary Block and removing the prodigy. Block cooldown can be slightly increased to compensate. Permablock won't be possible, but - honestly - is permablock fun ? If you can't attack, DO something, get out of there and heal, break the siege, whatever.

Hey, there's even a talent Eternal Block could replace - Last Stand. Last Stand would only make sense on an archer, bulwarks do have some locked archery tree but the wrong one, not Slings. Repel also would make more sense on a sling archer or Arcane Blade (let's pretend for a second that not everyone uses the same build). Daze in melee range is notoriously unreliable, and pushing enemies away hinders bulwarks.

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EDIT: is Eye of the Tiger supposed to work on triggering talent ? The description says it doesn't do that, but it most certainly does. With Aim (+70% critical chance) I can string as many Steady Shots as I want. A bug, or outdated description ?

[SageAcrin]

Block was good before Eternal Guard, and has become spectacularly powerful with it. And it's specifically, to me, because Block, with it, becomes a two turn huge damage Absorption-style barrier.

I don't agree with any of that assessment, in other words; Not that it's required to make Block fun, or that it's required to make it good.

Despite my hatred of nerfing things...if Eternal Guard's is seen as so central that it's required to play shield characters, I'd rather see it nerfed than its main trait moved to general Blocks.

Of course, I'd be okay with an "and" there; That is, nerf the trait and move it.

Make it so that you block (Block talent level) attacks before your block crumples, and make Eternal Guard double that and add one to your Block level. Block now is the central talent to Block heavy play, with Eternal Guard just aiding it.

Block is now not one of the most boring shield talents ever, that can literally be spammed auto, despite consuming turns, and always be worth it(assuming you cover relevant elements to a given encounter). It's more interesting, decentralizes Eternal Guard, and doesn't nerf the effect so much that it's actually bad.

(It doesn't hurt that this makes it possible for low invest shield mages to work better. I like those. )

[Doctornull]

Some way to get reactive Blocking would be neat.

Maybe a stance which, when Block is available, allows you to roll something (Dexterity? or for invisible attackers maybe Luck?) in reaction to a hit. This would go a long way to keeping the Block talent important to shield-bearers, but reducing the importance of the (very boring) Block activation.