Orcs Campaign: How, When , Why, What! [important]

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I hadn't considered the tax angle, but if you had applied as a group, faith is still in darkgod as the head of that group. I figure there's some legal way to set that up in writing somehow. Still, tax issues kinda screw the idea.

It was just a thought since people said that Kickstarter would've worked better then Indiegogo.

[LordKarasuman]

On the one hand, I'm excited about getting to play through a new campaign. On the other hand, Sun Paladin is currently my favorite class and it's sad to think about the Sunwall getting wiped out so soon after having helped them out against the Prides and Sorcerers. I'll support development of this game on KS regardless.

darkgod, I know you've probably got most of it mapped out in your head, but what about postgame content? Have much of it planned?

[Grey]

Maybe after playing the new campaign you'll fall in love with the orcs and not like fighting them in the original game ;)

[LordKarasuman]

Maybe after playing the new campaign you'll fall in love with the orcs and not like fighting them in the original game

I think the chances of that are roughly equal to Luminous Horrors becoming a playable race or me getting a Yeek Doomed through Insane Roguelike.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Not at all true. The new campaign will revolve in part, around the new Kruk Pride, who we haven't seen yet (by name. Behind the scenes, the orc in the Anorithil unlock event is part of Kruk Pride). For all we know, they're complete hippies.

Beyond that, the game is already designed to make you feel a bit sorry for the orcs. First they were enslaved by the halflings (as is right and proper. Everything should bow to the almighty superior halfling race, and accept it's place in servitude, with dignity.), then in simply trying to be free, had whole villages of civilians and women and children wiped out by the other armies, and THEN after all that, simply fought back to preserve there way of life. After THAT failed, they had to horribly defile and butcher their women to keep the race alive. And then after THAT they get manipulated and abused by the Sorcerers.

How can you see all that history, and not empathize even a LITTLE with them?

Personally, I look forward to the orc race getting a bit of karma to FINALLY come around and help them.

[Doctornull]

How can you see all that history, and not empathize even a LITTLE with them?

Because they're Orcs.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

And what's wrong with Orcs? You say this as if they have done something wrong!

[Doctornull]

And what's wrong with Orcs? You say this as if they have done something wrong!

They're green and they have tusks and they're ugly, unlike Elves who are pretty.
Yes, I am a fantasy racist.


(In all seriousness, since Tolkien they've been a stand-in for any "dehumanized war enemy". That means they're unsympathetic by design. The Warcraft line of games did a decent job of re-humanizing their orcs, but look how many games and real-world years that redemption arc spanned.)

[LordKarasuman]

How can you see all that history, and not empathize even a LITTLE with them?

Mostly, it's all the infighting and squabbling, endemic lack of ethics to the point that most of them are a lost cause, and red spray can spam. I hate to say it, but with the way the Orcs were in the first campaign, I felt like I was doing them a favor by wiping out, as it was more-or-less the equivalent of putting down a very large and very rabid dog. If Kruk Pride is very different from the others, mayyybe. It's not like I don't empathize with the Orcish race. It's just that after reading through the entirety of Garkul's history and the fact that they already had their own extremely violent time in the sun (and more than a century's worth of dominating the Far East after that...), I feel a little 'meh' about them reclaiming it so soon.

I suppose this is just a byproduct of Sun Paladins being so unpopular! ;_; Of course, I'm sure the new campaign will have plenty of new lore depicting how awful and bad the people of the Sunwall are? I guess.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

The lore in orc breeding grounds talks about infusing corrupting blight into the mothers blood. Personally, I believe the current state of the orcs is being affected like this. The blighted blood in the offspring generates excessive aggression, retards thinking, etc. etc. I'm willing to bet that the orcs we see now (exclusively the military. They have at least some civilian infrastructure, I'm sure. If nothing else, every army needs food. And I doubt they do nothing but farming with slave labor, since there simply wouldn't be enough of that to go around, given the relatively low population of the sunwall.) are nothing like what orcs once were. Given the 'distance' that Kruk Pride seems to be held at (and there lack of involvement in the sorcerers, this implies they think at least a little differently.

And remember that Garkul's campaign started because of the rampant enslavement and slaughter of orc civilians, all those many years ago. An act perpetrated by halflings. Hell, the orcs were RIGHT to defend themselves, by conventional morals anyway. The fact that everything got all twisted around is just sad and depressing.

[Grey]

The lore in orc breeding grounds talks about infusing corrupting blight into the mothers blood. Personally, I believe the current state of the orcs is being affected like this.

They're more affected by their treatment by the other races, destroying any soul and civility they ever had. Whether the Kruk clan can bring about their redemption remains to be seen... Those who hope they are more peaceful should remember that they invented steam-powered chainsaw teeth :-/

[Doctornull]

They're more affected by their treatment by the other races, destroying any soul and civility they ever had.

Yeeks got a pretty raw deal for a while, too.

Yet look how non-genocidal they turned out.

[Grey]

Have you met the yaechs? And the yeeks didn't have it as bad as the orcs.

[Robsoie]

I will always find hard to sympathize with the Orcs mostly because of this, that while humourous, is still an accurate summary of the ToME Orcs history

Okay, wait. Let's take a look at the orcs' history here.

a) Enslaved by halflings. Alright, this sucks, granted.
b) Time for vengeance, kill em all!
c) Well, that golem thing sucked. Oh, and the best of us is dead. Retreat.
d) Well, we have strongholds, a breeding program (disturbing though it be), and can fight our only competition in the area to a standstill. There might be a future for our people if we can hold out. Our chances look pretty good, unless we do someting stupid.
e) Start an invasion into the lands that killed us before, opening a second warfront out of, uh... "desperation"!
f) Well, that got the attention of a jerk with an inflated ego... who killed almost all of the rest of us, and destroyed our breeding program. And leadership.
g) Let's use what few of us are left to try and kill everyone again! It's worked so well before!


They had a supreme advantage and could have even held out for a resurgence of their culture, and numbers. They blew it by starting an unnecessary invasion out of spite (Reknor), that gave them away to the continent that's killed them twice. They were "desperate" when they started Project Greatmother, but continuing aggression on the brink of extinction is just blind, simple bloodthirst. Like animals. No one's straight good or bad, but the orcs are suicidally stupid, apparently. I do look forward to being proven wrong. I hope.

[Grey]

They didn't start a war with the West, they performed small raids to nab weapons to help with the war against the Sunwall. They were also being manipulated by the sorcerers.

And in the new campaign they have another war already ongoing (part of why the Kruk clan is never seen in the main campaign - they're busy with their own enemies) and a role in some potentially world-saving adventures. And steamtech, of course.