Adventurers: Enough category points?

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Discuss. 7 is often fewer categories then some classes offer, and all the categories they get come at 1.00. This precludes them from some bonuses, and is perhaps how it should be. However, even if one were to raise mastery with a cat point, you can still only reach 1.20 without further boosts from equipment, compared to most classes favored skills being at 1.30. Is it reasonable to offer adventurers and extra 2 or 3 category points, so they can pick a few of the skills they have to 'specialize' in?

I realize that many will likely jump immediately on this being 'overpowered' because you could just go buy more talent categories instead. But can you actually do that? You only have a finite number of class/generic points, and can't spread them too terribly thin. That already acts as a cap on how far they can spread. Extra cat points can only help them specialize a bit, thereby making more distinct adventurer builds possible. This opens up the possibility for them to eventually hit a effective level of 6, with 5 points, instead of 5, compared to an effective 6.5 that a standard version of a class offers. They still don't shine as high as the 'real' version of a class, but they can specialize enough to come within shouting distance on just a talent tree or two.

Thoughts? I welcome discussion on this.

[SageAcrin]

I don't know about enough points to specialize in, per se.

Alchemist has a whopping five unlocked categories, of note, for instance, and it's quite an effective class. So certainly, you can get by with specializing, but at a notable cost.

If there's a reason to support this, it'd be that seven isn't enough to make a good, hilarious combo with...but I think it's just enough, in general. The 1.0 thing keeps Adventurers from crutching on focused builds and instead requires spreading out, which is, to me, a very entertaining way to be overpowered; I don't really think it's desireable to make it easy to hit higher category power without cost, as such.

[Elkan]

It would probably be rather awkward to code, But I think a good way to handle this issue would be that after that character has been generated they are then asked to select two categories to add a +0.3 cat modifier to. that allows them to pick the two trees they are most focused on. letting them use some trees which a bit more oomph, and preventing them form spreading themselves too thin.

[fuzzynord]

I think there was talk about making a modified category point that can only upgrade a tree, not unlock one. I think the idea was to make alternatives to anti-magic more appealing. I think it was supposed to be some magical tome of knowledge or potion that the mages offered in return for some sort of aid, I think defeating the tempest.

If we do have these modified category points (Maybe "Buff points"?) then that would be okay for the adventurer class to have maybe one of those. But I think 7 is enough category points as it is. There are several trees that offer a lot of benefit for most builds with few skill points spent. With even more category points, that would allow adventurer to be even more overpowered.

[Zonk]

Bumping/necroing this, as I've recently unlocked them and have two related ideas:

1. Starting with combat training would be nice. Everyone should start with it, in fact.
Playing a without combat accuracy until you can go to Last Hope and just buy the tree to avoid wasting a cat point is...VERY annoying.

2. Instead of giving +2 to all starting stats, adding up to +12, give +0 to all and 9 extra unused stat points, since other starting classes have bonuses that add to +9.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Pretty sure they have the tree, it's just locked. Or do I misremember my ID run adventurers? That said, it probably SHOULD be unlocked at the start, though nothing else should. (Given that the store unlocks it, having it locked in ID hurts adventurers quite a bit.)

[Zonk]

Pretty sure they have the tree, it's just locked. Or do I misremember my ID run adventurers? That said, it probably SHOULD be unlocked at the start, though nothing else should.

Yes, that's exactly my point. Again, quite annoying because either you spend a cat point NOW or you fight without combat accuracy(which can make you miss msot of the time)until you can leave the zone with enough gold to buy it.

Again I think just giving the tree to everyone is best. Is there any character that wouldn't eventually want to spend the generics for Thick Skin...?

[Zonk]

Pretty sure they have the tree, it's just locked. Or do I misremember my ID run adventurers? That said, it probably SHOULD be unlocked at the start, though nothing else should.

Yes, that's exactly my point. Again, quite annoying because either you spend a cat point NOW or you fight without combat accuracy(which can make you miss msot of the time)until you can leave the zone with enough gold to buy it.

Again I think just giving the tree to everyone is best. Is there any character that wouldn't eventually want to spend the generics for Thick Skin...?

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Generic starved characters? I admit, it hurts badly not having it on a melee class, and it's probably the one tree that is crucial to even getting a class of the ground that is also available to be purchased. Everyone shouldn't have it, no. But adventurers should. No points in it, of course, but the tree unlocked.

[Parcae2]

Wait, why are we talking about buffing a class so hilariously overpowered that even the flavour text warns you that it's unbalanced? If anything, I'd like to see the "select from any talent in the game" nerfed massively and/or rolled into something else (like Glutton or Possessor) so that wins with the class can be taken seriously.

[Kaja Rainbow]

It's not like adventurer wins were intended to be taken seriously in the first place. It's for trying out fun combos. If you want a balanced class, go for another class (I hear the Glutton's back in development?).

[SageAcrin]

How do you nerf the ability to select from any talent in the game enough so that a class with actual roles besides "select any talent in the game" isn't horribly overpowered?

Anything you come up with will decidedly play nothing like Adventurers, in the end, I promise you that. It could certainly be cool as a class option, but not a replacement.

[Doctornull]

As someone who is having fun designing new classes, the Adventurer can be a useful tool for prototyping.

Maybe a new sub-type of Adventurer ("Prototype") which has some 1.3 and 1.1 cat points? Unlockable only by manually adding the unlock code so only people who want to mess with the code have access to it? I dunno.