Infinite 500: Gameplay Beyond Level 50

[Hachem_Muche]

I have just uploaded version 1.10 for ToME 1.0.4 at

http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... v1.10.teaa

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Possible flaw with infinite500. Enemies with Bone Shield are not always losing there sustain. I ran into an unkillable Thauhureg with bone shield, and after all the bone shield orbs vanished, it kept the sustain, and continued to take 0 damage. After sending the savefile off to DarkGod, he can't replicate from the same source. Someone in chat said the same thing happened to them, and common factor is the infinite 500 addon. Hopefully the change in Bone Shield didn't mess with the addon, but I report it here anyway. And a crossposted link to the original bug report, just in case.

http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... 19#p155119

[Hachem_Muche]

Are you using the latest version of I500 (v1.10)?

I was able to duplicate this problem with I500 v1.9b (for ToME version 1.0.3) in ToME 1.0.4.

Bone shield changed a lot in the last several svns and I updated the addon to be compatible. Using an earlier version of I500 with 1.0.4 will result in the game using different incompatible parts of the talent definition.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Are you using the latest version of I500 (v1.10)?

I was able to duplicate this problem with I500 v1.9b (for ToME version 1.0.3) in ToME 1.0.4.

Bone shield changed a lot in the last several svns and I updated the addon to be compatible. Using an earlier version of I500 with 1.0.4 will result in the game using different incompatible parts of the talent definition.

That solved it. Hadn't thought to check for a new version of infinite500... Never saw the 'bad addon' version that comes with a new one. Guess that doesn't show up anymore. My mistake. Thank you.

[Hachem_Muche]

I have just uploaded version 1.10a at http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... 1.10a.teaa

This fixes a bug that was causing mitosis not to spawn bloated oozes properly.

[Noel]

I just started playing with this plugin on the main campaign, and the new onHit formulas seem to nerf melee chars a bit. Not sure if this is intended or a side effect.

With the old linear onHit formula, I could generally count on getting a hit and status effect from talents like Stunning Blow, as long as ( attack - defence ) is greater than around 20. (IIRC, it's 5% failure chance, or 1 in 20.)

With the new formula, the failure chance drops to 1:10 or 1:5 for anything with reasonable defence. If the melee misses, the talent still goes on cooldown, requiring additional contingency planning.

How about treating these status-causing melee talents similarly to Dirty Fighting? IOW, if the talent is used, but the hit misses, don't put the talent on cooldown (but do take a turn, unlike Dirty Fighting). Or maybe put it on a short cooldown?

However, the cooldown should only be skipped/shortened for melee attack talents, not things like Rush or Blindside where the attack is a side-effect.

[Hachem_Muche]

Thanks for trying out Infinite 500 and posting your feedback!

With the old linear onHit formula, I could generally count on getting a hit and status effect from talents like Stunning Blow, as long as ( attack - defence ) is greater than around 20. (IIRC, it's 5% failure chance, or 1 in 20.)

With the new formula, the failure chance drops to 1:10 or 1:5 for anything with reasonable defence. If the melee misses, the talent still goes on cooldown, requiring additional contingency planning.

This is intended. The main point of the new formula to make sure that there is always a chance of success (or failure) in most attacks. It works for both the player and for NPC's; No NPC is completely unhittable, and every NPC has a chance to hit the player. Part of the point is make sure that no actors (either player or NPC) can become melee-immune, so that you can't just jump into a mob of enemies with no risk of being hit, but at the same time, you are not faced with a hopeless (and frustrating!) situation when facing a random boss with a lot of defensive skills. This works for most spell effects as well. The result is to make sure that higher accuracy (and defense) and power (and saves) are always beneficial. In other words, to make your attacks more reliable, keep investing in attack. The need for contingency planning is the hallmark of ToME's deep tactical combat system, and this builds upon and enhances that.

I just started playing with this plugin on the main campaign, and the new onHit formulas seem to nerf melee chars a bit. Not sure if this is intended or a side effect.

Overall, I'd say that this addon is a slight buff for melee in general due to other changes, like the updated evasion mechanic, and rescaling armor. The new effects can limit melee offense at the high end somewhat, but they also buff defense in the same way.

How about treating these status-causing melee talents similarly to Dirty Fighting? IOW, if the talent is used, but the hit misses, don't put the talent on cooldown (but do take a turn, unlike Dirty Fighting). Or maybe put it on a short cooldown?

What you are proposing here would be unique. (Dirty Fighting is the only talent currently that is free to use if the status effect is resisted and it still goes on cooldown AND costs a turn to use if you miss with the initial attack.) I don't think the game would be enhanced if a Boss could keep trying a killer move against the player repeatedly until it connected.

[Mindless]

"Arcane Power" talent (from Spell/Arcane tree) doesn't seem to work and when you cancel it your base spellpower is damaged.

[Hachem_Muche]

"Arcane Power" talent (from Spell/Arcane tree) doesn't seem to work and when you cancel it your base spellpower is damaged.

Good catch.

This problem was accidentally introduced in version 1.10 with changes to the general talent scaling formulas. The rescaled version of this talent (and many others) have been added to the main game (in the working repository) and the problem is fixed there. In the meantime, don't use Arcane Power with I500 until the next version (2.0 for ToME 1.0.5). Sorry about the inconvenience.

[Mindless]

Good catch.

Well... Just deleted the "Arcane Power" edited entry from I500 talents (as temporary solution).
There also some more: "Born into Magic"(the description does not match the % of arcane damage and resistance).

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Does this mean what I think it does?

Specifically, he seems to be indicating that random event pushes like Bearscape and Poosh can occur in the regular ID now. Will I500 users be able to take advantage of this as well, or will it prevent these from activating properly? (And if not, can you change something to allow it for the next version?)

[Hachem_Muche]

...
There also some more: "Born into Magic"(the description does not match the % of arcane damage and resistance).

I updated the tooltip, but don't see any problem with the resistance.

[Hachem_Muche]

Does this mean what I think it does?

Specifically, he seems to be indicating that random event pushes like Bearscape and Poosh can occur in the regular ID now. Will I500 users be able to take advantage of this as well, or will it prevent these from activating properly? (And if not, can you change something to allow it for the next version?)

Yes, it looks like events pushed online will be enabled in the I.D. I've just updated I500 to accommodate this but won't be able to test the changes until DG pushes some events (probably not until after ToME 1.0.5)

[overtrix]

I noticed that Militant Mind wasn't augmenting spellpower (the other buffs were happening), didn't occur to me that it might be an I500 thing. In which case, maybe is related to the Arcane Power issue e.g. a piece of code reused from one to the other ?

[Hachem_Muche]

I've uploaded a new version that fixes the Arcane Power bug (and possibly others that haven't been seen) at http://te4.org/sites/default/files/game ... 1.10b.teaa

I noticed that Militant Mind wasn't augmenting spellpower (the other buffs were happening), didn't occur to me that it might be an I500 thing. In which case, maybe is related to the Arcane Power issue e.g. a piece of code reused from one to the other ?

Version 1.10a doesn't make any changes to the Militant Mind talent, so it shouldn't be an I500 bug.