Integrating the orcish side fo the storyline

[HousePet]

Actually, Nature created Antimagic and Psionics.
Hate is a corrupted version of Psionics.

Nature Gifts use magic too. Specially sanctioned magic, that stops working if you do too much damage to nature.

[jotwebe]

I see psionics as the rational, concious side of mind powers, and hate as the version driven by the unconcious and the Id. A bit strange that Solipsists use psi in that context, but on the other hand they do seem to have an extreme form of power through self-denial going. And Nightmares consists of harnessing the subconciousnesses of others against them, not using the Solipsist's own. I suspect they take smug satisfaction in exploiting a weakness in others that they have denied themselves.

[darkgod]

Nature powers are *not* magic. Magic by definition is tweaking natural things through "external" forces, aka the arcane.

Sirrocco your explanation is one of the best I saw Wiki it!

[Sirrocco]

I'd love to, oh Great and Terrible One, but I'm not seeing where in the wiki it would go. If someone has any decent ideas of where to put it, by all means feel free.

[YanniFirewind]

Maybe put a part on the wiki for well-written fanon?

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I do like them in a meta sense. That might be in part because, ah... it was one of my suggestions that led to their creation. So --[zig]YOU SPEAK TO THE FATHER OF THE ZIGURANTH, YOU INSOLENT FOOLS[/zig] -- I mean, sorry.

Didn't you also help to create the necromancers? I think you just have a love for extremes As long as someone suffers, you're happy!

Everybody, the TRUE threat to Eyal is Burb Lulls!

Hail the True Horror !

But please, crim, do continue; maybe somdeday your epic verbal fight will appear ingame!

*bows* As my Dark Master commands, so I obey.

[mage]As a continuation of our arguments over our political structure seem to have stagnated, I feel a need to address one of your other points. The existence of a force that PROVES, beyond any doubt the peaceful coexistence of both magic and nature as a single harmonious entity, and not merely as two approaches to the same result.

Twas only the other day, that I managed to come across a dwarf struggling against a series of horrors, whilst investigating reports of blight in a nearby set of caverns. As I readied myself to rush to his aid, a most wondrous sight occurred to my eyes. From the very elemental forces of the earth itself rose tentacles of solid living natural stone, not manipulated by magic alone, but by a most peculiar blending of both natural and arcane power. Whilst indeed magic brought them forth the life and animation that existed amongst them came from a force of nature itself. No sooner then these had arisen, did they lash out at each of the dwarf's foes, and ensnare them most firmly and begin to strangle the very life from these abominations.

No sooner had one wonder taken form before me, then another. From the dwarf himself, there seemed a blurring, and as I blinked, there stood in it's place, 3 dwarves. The original, one of stone, and another of solid crystal. But NAY! No mere statues these, they moved with there own animate WILL! Again, the very lifeforce of nature had infused these creations, and given them a will! No magic we have ever heard of could accomplish this, not even the crude functioning of a golem creates life.

As these creations moved about, and begin to smash to pieces each of these foul horrors still being pinned and choked by the bonds of earth containing them; even occasionally generating magical blasts of stone; the dwarf began to force the earth itself to move these ensnared targets around, choking them with the very force of the planet itself. Eyal ANSWERED this Dwarf's call to battle! A wonder even we and you could not create alone.

No sooner then the horrors were dispatched, did the earth calm itself, and the former tentacles sink back into the ground form which they came, and the statuesque beings merged back into the dwarf, even imparting unto him what remained of it's lifeforce, healing what wounds he had taken. Truly, the miracles of this world never seem to cease.

I cite this as proof beyond any doubt that nature and magic are most harmonious in nature, and that it is perhaps your so called 'antimagic' which is unnatural and abhorrent to the world. Or rather more likely, a reaction to this blight that seems to creep across the world, but to pervert this into some form of statement that magic itself is abhorred by nature, is the height of bigotry and ignorance.[/mage]

Apologies for this delay. I needed fresh material to churn over. Burb (or anyone else who wants to step up to the plate), if you respond, do please brush up on your lore surrounding Celestials, as they are my next target to exonerate of filthy magehate.

Mayhap this shall please my master.

[Zonk]

Just some random thoughts/interpretations/theories:

I definetely tend to conceptualize 'hate' as unconscious psi, so agreeing with jotwebe there.

But as for the arcane vs-not distinction, I find the one way I can make sense of it is...relatively. Taking into account most of the game is set into Eyal...

Nature gifts would call on the planet force itself to change things so it's change from within, arcane is 'external', because you are thinkering with forces from 'somewhere else'.
That might be why magic can go wrong, because changing things from outside can be messy.
Though perhaps some forces are INNATELY dangerous.

But if you are somewhere else compared to Eyal then matters change, especially when you consider *specific*resources.
Outside Eyal, wild-gifts could be seen as pretty innatural, but in the Temporal Rift, chronomancy would be 'natural'(but still very risky), in the Fearscape 'demonic powers' could be and so on. Celestial magic would be more natural the closer you are to celestial bodies.

Celestial seems to me to be the LEAST innatural of magic...although, amusingly, Vim could also fit there. 'Corruption' is relative and it still means working within the system, in a way.

I get the funny picture of a Zigur Wilder ending up in a different world where their 'natural gifts' would be magic, but the native powers are 'natural' And maybe this world has their own Zigur...

Basically: 'nature' controls the environment directly, other power sources control/'twist' from outside.