Let's indulge in some make-believe. I'm curious about what concepts people would like to see in their open source hack and slashes that deviates enough from the norm as to make them unimplementable in modern variants without modding them in themselves. Alternatively, what pet peeves do you carry against the tropes and mechanics commonly used in these sort of Rogue-derivated adventures? Not necessarily related to ToME 4 mind, and a moderator could move this to the void if they want to but I feel as if it belongs in a ideas forum.
Unified armor system: How come wearing half an inch of steel plate protects from swords but not sorcery? Why is physical resistance commonly using discrete armor class subtractions from damage whilst elemental resistance is percentage based? Why can characters typically dodge arrows but not fireballs using the dexterity stat? I for one would like to see an armor/dodge/resistance system that uses the same base mechanics for everything. There are some games that currently do something akin to this (like DoomRL), but most medieval hack & slashes seem to stick with the old D&D formula.
No leveling: Another thing I've wondered about but rarely see subverted: how come XP and leveling is a staple of the RPG genre? I can see the point of it in pen and paper, where players are encouraged to make up their own open ended narratives and the characters getting progressively more powerful gives a sense of progress and encourages the players to stick with their characters and settings. In computer RPGs though? They're usually (relatively) limited in scope, with one or more predetermined goals that the player has to accomplish in order to beat in order to experience the story and complete the game. Why must every character start off as a plucky farmboy (or supposedly grizzled veteran..) and then grow exponentially more powerful one white jelly at a time? How come I have to spend the entire game getting to the point where my character is sufficiently decked out to be able to use the playstyle I planned beforehand only to realize I'm going into the last boss battle?
I would like to see a roguelike where one could make up and customize an advanced character concept (or a role if one would like, to play) and then get to play exactly that for the entire game. Gameplay difficulty and variance could then be maintained using progressively more complex enemies and situations for the player to overcome any way they see fit rather than relying on bigger numbers for the endgame.
Things you would like to see in a roguelike (but won't)?
Moderator: Moderator
Re: Things you would like to see in a roguelike (but won't)?
Have you played Brogue?
Re: Things you would like to see in a roguelike (but won't)?
I have it installed, but the only things I've done thus far is meander around the first level and enjoy the pretty colors. Why?
Last edited by Infinitum on Mon May 20, 2013 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Things you would like to see in a roguelike (but won't)?
It has zero experience. Advancement in the game depends entirely on item finds, which in turn don't require killing - stealth is a very viable gameplay style. It's not so much about numbers advancement though as about increasing options as the game gets more complex.
Re: Things you would like to see in a roguelike (but won't)?
I should probably list them here and make a roguelike like this.
1. No random item drops - I would like to see a roguelike that did not give players random equipment, so that the player could fully choose the build that they wanted to do. Rather, the player would collect gold to buy consumables/permanent items. To make this mechanic even more interesting, there would need to be good procedural generation, with a variance of dungeons where different tactics/item builds could succeed. This would give players an incentive to try different item builds, as a replacement for randomizing the items the player can get.
2. Really great procedural generation - Dungeons with procedurally generated themes, where the inhabitants/dungeon layout gives advantages and disadvantages to certain tactics. Dungeons that make sense. Dungeons that are fun to explore and are meaningful. Grey talks about this. Can be combined with...
3. Interesting AI - look at smart kobolds for an example. If the monsters are supposed to be intelligent, then make them so. Make the monsters use interesting tactics, and force the player to come up with good ideas to counter their tactics.
1. No random item drops - I would like to see a roguelike that did not give players random equipment, so that the player could fully choose the build that they wanted to do. Rather, the player would collect gold to buy consumables/permanent items. To make this mechanic even more interesting, there would need to be good procedural generation, with a variance of dungeons where different tactics/item builds could succeed. This would give players an incentive to try different item builds, as a replacement for randomizing the items the player can get.
2. Really great procedural generation - Dungeons with procedurally generated themes, where the inhabitants/dungeon layout gives advantages and disadvantages to certain tactics. Dungeons that make sense. Dungeons that are fun to explore and are meaningful. Grey talks about this. Can be combined with...
3. Interesting AI - look at smart kobolds for an example. If the monsters are supposed to be intelligent, then make them so. Make the monsters use interesting tactics, and force the player to come up with good ideas to counter their tactics.
Re: Things you would like to see in a roguelike (but won't)?
Hell yeah.
Furniture: Preferrably with custom layouts that can arrange it in non-crazytown fashion. Bonus points for making the furniture destroyable and acting as cover. I know Dorf Fortress can achieve something like this in adventurer mode, but the time and skill investment it takes to build a decent sized believable fortress is probably on par with just learning to mod it into an existing game.
AI that attempts to leverage its numerical advantage: Like, say, not attempting to follow the player into one-tile passages. Or staying out of range of the players ranged abilities until he's forced to enter open ground. Nothing fancy, just avoiding the big old conga line of death.
EDIT: Oh god I just googled smart kobolds. JOY.
Playing in multiple windows simultaneously: Say you play a cyberpunk setting and attempt to hack a guardbot - instead of a dice roll the playing screen splits in two with the "real" world to the left and a cyberspace representation of the bots higher functions to the right, with a player avatar (with different skill loadouts depending on skill choices in combat and hacking). Taking an action on either side of the screen takes a number of energy points in both, with higher levels of hacking allowing the player to move faster in cyberspace relative reality.
Persuation system using the same mechanics as combat: Using the above split screen technique, guide your avatar through the perilious wastes of conversation using your powers of Logos, Pathos and Ethos to bypass, battle or subvert nefarious Arguments every step of the way.
Everything using the same mechanics as combat: I mean let's face it, the combat minigame is the only one that's sufficently complex and challenging to be considered fun in any given rpg (hence why gameplay usually revolves around it). If being a succesful barterer required five different skill trees, eight feats and the verbal equivalent of overcoming your businesspartner maybe shop visits could be made fun.
Furniture: Preferrably with custom layouts that can arrange it in non-crazytown fashion. Bonus points for making the furniture destroyable and acting as cover. I know Dorf Fortress can achieve something like this in adventurer mode, but the time and skill investment it takes to build a decent sized believable fortress is probably on par with just learning to mod it into an existing game.
AI that attempts to leverage its numerical advantage: Like, say, not attempting to follow the player into one-tile passages. Or staying out of range of the players ranged abilities until he's forced to enter open ground. Nothing fancy, just avoiding the big old conga line of death.
EDIT: Oh god I just googled smart kobolds. JOY.
Playing in multiple windows simultaneously: Say you play a cyberpunk setting and attempt to hack a guardbot - instead of a dice roll the playing screen splits in two with the "real" world to the left and a cyberspace representation of the bots higher functions to the right, with a player avatar (with different skill loadouts depending on skill choices in combat and hacking). Taking an action on either side of the screen takes a number of energy points in both, with higher levels of hacking allowing the player to move faster in cyberspace relative reality.
Persuation system using the same mechanics as combat: Using the above split screen technique, guide your avatar through the perilious wastes of conversation using your powers of Logos, Pathos and Ethos to bypass, battle or subvert nefarious Arguments every step of the way.
Everything using the same mechanics as combat: I mean let's face it, the combat minigame is the only one that's sufficently complex and challenging to be considered fun in any given rpg (hence why gameplay usually revolves around it). If being a succesful barterer required five different skill trees, eight feats and the verbal equivalent of overcoming your businesspartner maybe shop visits could be made fun.