As Talent Level 7 is possible to achieve on a skill (technically you get to 7.5, which is the cap for skills), I think it would be neat to give Lichform a special benefit for having such a high level of devotion. Getting to this point requires investing a category point and 5 ranks into the skill in ADDITION to the regular requirements for Lichform. The whole skill seems on increasing your power for having devotion to the ritual and art, so it seems fitting that the ultimate devotion should ultimately be rewarded.
To be honest I'm not sure what powerful benefit, but maybe a Vim pool and access to some Corruptor talents like Bone or Blood? I mean, you are an undead monstrosity, feeding on the life force of your foes makes sense.
Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
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Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
As you're already getting a Negative bar, Hymns would be amusing as well (probably stepping on anorothil's toes too much there, though).
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
I'm not too keen for this.
Its already an all or nothing talent.
Changing the requirements for gaining the maximum effect seems likely to cause even more tedium.
Its already an all or nothing talent.
Changing the requirements for gaining the maximum effect seems likely to cause even more tedium.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
Well, the current level 6 implementation is actually rather nice; I could see a number of people being satisfied with that and not bothering with the level 7 bonus. Sure it's not PERFECTLY min-maxing but there are a number of successful liches already
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
I can see this as a neat idea, but making it really strong will just make people that didn't get the Lich staff feel like they got RNG screwed, and restart. (It's easy to forget, but you can hit talent level 7 on Necrosis through equipment instead of category points.)
As such, I'd rather see it be a smaller benefit(Maybe 1.2 Star Fury/+8 to stats instead of 1.1/+6), if such a change were added.
As such, I'd rather see it be a smaller benefit(Maybe 1.2 Star Fury/+8 to stats instead of 1.1/+6), if such a change were added.
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
Fair enough, I suppose. Still, I just think that something is in order.
Also, it somewhat surprises me that Necromancers have no Vim talents; Vim is all about using the life of your foes to fuel your magic, so it seems a natural fit for me. Probably had to do with when the two came out, I guess? Negative Energy isn't quite as intuitive a resource to me, but c'est la vie.
Also, it somewhat surprises me that Necromancers have no Vim talents; Vim is all about using the life of your foes to fuel your magic, so it seems a natural fit for me. Probably had to do with when the two came out, I guess? Negative Energy isn't quite as intuitive a resource to me, but c'est la vie.
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
TOME necromancers don't really use life as a resource, theirs or anyone else's. They use the bodies and souls of the dead, and they draw on mana to empower them to do so. The only exception I can think of is Vampiric Gift, which is a straightforward life-drain/healing effect rather than resource manipulation, and also fits as it implies necromancers imitating an ability of the undead they create.Fayd wrote:Also, it somewhat surprises me that Necromancers have no Vim talents; Vim is all about using the life of your foes to fuel your magic, so it seems a natural fit for me.
As for negative energy, if positive energy specifically hurts undead, it's not implausible that negative energy might (em)power them.
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
Vim rips out life energy from enemies and stores it for use in the caster's body, then uses it as magical fuel for various spells.
Necromancers just use mana to do everything. Except, they store the souls of those that die in their aura, for temporary storage in shambling undead abominations.
It's strangely logical of a distinction. Necromancers only deal with the soul, not what powers the body, and use standard mana to do all their stuff otherwise. Defilers use life energy to power their skills.
Necromancers just use mana to do everything. Except, they store the souls of those that die in their aura, for temporary storage in shambling undead abominations.
It's strangely logical of a distinction. Necromancers only deal with the soul, not what powers the body, and use standard mana to do all their stuff otherwise. Defilers use life energy to power their skills.
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
Cross-posting from another thread because I like where Aura was going with this! Or Crim, I guess. Sorry, you're stuck as Aura in my head.
Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:Hmmmm... Special archlich prodigy or something maybe? Or qualify for an 'auto-resurrect' once, like reassemble would grant? (To offer you an extra life out of it? That might be worth a cat point...)
Hell, give a prodigy point for it. That's worth a cat point, but finicky enough that while specific builds could get some use out of it, plenty could easily make due without it, dumping the cat point elsewhere for better use.
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Crim, The Red Thunder
- Sher'Tul Godslayer
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Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
Either is acceptable. I wasn't Crim in-game because the name system wouldn't allow the comma, and I'm anal about that. So I went with another name from the same series (which I've used elsewhere anyway.)
In response to some of the stuff above:
It's not penalizing folks for not min/maxing properly, it's about the resources for your build. Some builds NEED that cat point for other things, while some might NEED the benefits offered by a special bonus on lichform 7. Case in point, if you REALLY want to kite around with teleport runes, or pump some of your trees with cat points to maximize your potential, can you necessarily spare it just to pick up a bonus on lichform, at the expense of buffing 4 other talents? For an example, look at doomed with shadows. Doomed can REALLY benefit from a cat point for an extra shadow, but would you be better off missing that extra shadow, in exchange for another tree? Some go one direction, some go another. Anorithil provides another example with corona/hymn of moonlight, both of which benefit from a cat point (and are centerpiece to most anorithil builds) yet, can you afford to blow cat points on them? With lich, the idea is to create a similar situation. You can be a great lich at talent level 6, or you can be a marginally better lich with a sacrifice for talent level 7, but less versatile in your other trees. More variety for builds is always useful.
As for exactly what bonus would be best, that remains to be seen. Ideally it should be something unique and different, that would make you think twice about the cat point, rather then making it a no-brainer gimme.
In response to some of the stuff above:
It's not penalizing folks for not min/maxing properly, it's about the resources for your build. Some builds NEED that cat point for other things, while some might NEED the benefits offered by a special bonus on lichform 7. Case in point, if you REALLY want to kite around with teleport runes, or pump some of your trees with cat points to maximize your potential, can you necessarily spare it just to pick up a bonus on lichform, at the expense of buffing 4 other talents? For an example, look at doomed with shadows. Doomed can REALLY benefit from a cat point for an extra shadow, but would you be better off missing that extra shadow, in exchange for another tree? Some go one direction, some go another. Anorithil provides another example with corona/hymn of moonlight, both of which benefit from a cat point (and are centerpiece to most anorithil builds) yet, can you afford to blow cat points on them? With lich, the idea is to create a similar situation. You can be a great lich at talent level 6, or you can be a marginally better lich with a sacrifice for talent level 7, but less versatile in your other trees. More variety for builds is always useful.
As for exactly what bonus would be best, that remains to be seen. Ideally it should be something unique and different, that would make you think twice about the cat point, rather then making it a no-brainer gimme.
Currently playing under the name Aura of the Dawn 4 down, 227 to go!
Proud author of Orc Pit Restoration Project, Faction Allies, Dwarven Adventurer addons
Proud author of Orc Pit Restoration Project, Faction Allies, Dwarven Adventurer addons
SadistSquirrel wrote:DarkGod has two arms, one with an opened hand, one with a closed fist. You got the fist.
Re: Give Lichform a Powerful Benefit at Talent Level 7
I actually made an Archlich prodigy in my addon set of Prodigy suggestions.Fayd wrote:Cross-posting from another thread because I like where Aura was going with this! Or Crim, I guess. Sorry, you're stuck as Aura in my head.
Crim, The Red Thunder wrote:Hmmmm... Special archlich prodigy or something maybe? Or qualify for an 'auto-resurrect' once, like reassemble would grant? (To offer you an extra life out of it? That might be worth a cat point...)
Hell, give a prodigy point for it. That's worth a cat point, but finicky enough that while specific builds could get some use out of it, plenty could easily make due without it, dumping the cat point elsewhere for better use.
You could see if DarkGod liked that one-IIRC he said he was interested in the ones he didn't use, but I don't know if that means he's planning on utilizing some of them much later or all of them much later.
