Time to Start Archmage Unlocked?

[HousePet]

Have you won concentrating on fire alchemy? I almost always skip it because it's underpowered compared to the bombs and golems, but I wouldn't mind trying it if you can give a few hints on how to properly strategize. I do enjoy putting a lot of emphasis on Staff Combat. It doesn't have the sheer power of the class talents, but it's fun for flavor.

I've only won the game twice, once as a Skelly Paladin and once as a Halfling Solopsist.
Please keep this in mind when I say I haven't won the game with a Fire Alchemy Alchemist.
I have got to the Far East though. No idea how I managed to do that before the recent changes went in.
With the recent changes, you can use Smoke Bomb to spread the damage from Heat to multiple targets, and using an Infusion talent to alter your damage is way better now than before.

[shwqa]

I think alchemist is a way easier class to play than archmage.

Archmage come with a TON of options, which is what makes the class fun. It has 16 (4 locked through achievement) trees to chose from. Picking water and stone early game would be gimping yourself pretty hard, especially with their unique starter dungeon. Due their fragile nature, you need some finesse to get far in the game.

On the other had Alchemist only has 9 trees. If you invest heavily in golem you can get to the east pretty easily and unlock a lot of classes. If you invest heavily in staff combat you could beat tier 2 dungeons pretty easily and unlock a lot of classes. If you invest heavily in bombs you could beat the game. Hell you could ignore con altogether and get pretty far with alchemist. They are easier to play without little knowledge of the game.

[HousePet]

I've got past all the teir 2 dungeons now with a new fire alchemist.
Max Fire Alchemy is rather fun. I've also maxed Staff Combat.
Lost a lot of lives though, haven't had much in the way of useful loot drops.
Also, fire magic tends to be lacking in defensive abilities.

[Hunter]

I think I'll give the Fire Alchemist a shot soon, then. Maybe play as a dwarf or a skeleton for the toughness and defensive capability ( I already like dwarf alchemists anyway because of the massive amounts of gold + Power is Money. Though I always thought it made more sense the other way around, "Money is Power.")

[HousePet]

Died.
I starting putting some points into getting the golem tougher, but it still died to much to be useful.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Something no one has suggested yet, is the old 'specialized' mages. Folks have mentioned the plethora of options archmage has, making it complicated. Hell, it has more trees then anything short of adventurer, off the top of my head. Numerous potential successful builds, even without getting into 'gimmick' builds. (Tribeam mage, Storm mage, Pyro mage, Aether mage, all off the top of my head, without getting into gimmick builds.) Perhaps the solution is to offer more KINDS of mage, so that we don't have 'Alchemist who's not really a mage at all' and 'archmage with everything'. Maybe we keep archmage as is, and add some simpler mage classes, focusing on some simpler builds. Perhaps mages who aren't directly affiliated with Angolwen. The Shaloren obviously still have magic, certainly it's possible for mages to NOT be immediately affiliated with Angolwen. This would avoid the Archmage starter (which really should be reserved for the best of mages), and offer some simpler (and earlier available) mage builds for play. Could even throw in a few new trees if need be, to flesh out some simpler mages, though I doubt we need to get that far.

For instance, our mage could be driven out of her hometown, after her (so called... stupid mage hate) evil magic practices were found out, mobs and zigurists on her heels, as she heads to try and find some place to hide, and thusly enters whatever starters are appropriate, looking for cash and a new home. Ta-DA! We have room for more mages now.

[HousePet]

Hedge Wizard!

[jotwebe]

Something no one has suggested yet, is the old 'specialized' mages.

edge's Hedge Wizard: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... 1&p=100306

Sradacs Elementalist: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... 66&start=0

[Sradac]

I enjoy unlocks, keeps me comming back and gives me something to strive for. Short term goals beyond "kill the next boss" are great in roguelikes.

Im not sure about this whole alchemists are super hard to play argument. They are the first class I ever played, back when this was still tales of middle earth 4. Easiest class ever. If the player cant figure out "blow shit up" then they probably shouldnt have access to archmages yet either.

What traps are there for alchemist anyways? Fire alchemy is amazing now, and if you go golem-heavy you will at least get to tier2s easily enough, enough to learn the ropes of the game.

[Sradac]

Something no one has suggested yet, is the old 'specialized' mages.

Sradacs Elementalist: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=3 ... 66&start=0

haha aww I completely forgot about that post. Now you are making me want that class again.

[5k17]

Im not sure about this whole alchemists are super hard to play argument. They are the first class I ever played, back when this was still tales of middle earth 4. Easiest class ever. If the player cant figure out "blow shit up" then they probably shouldnt have access to archmages yet either.

How is correctly building and using one's golem, bombs and staff easier than choosing a beam attack spell and casting it on every enemy?

[Sradac]

also for in-between mages, you guys forgot about this one:

Code: Select all

getBirthDescriptor("class", "Mage").descriptor_choices.subclass["Sorcerer"] = "allow"

newBirthDescriptor{
	type = "subclass",
	name = "Sorcerer",
	desc = {
		"Placeholder.  Not a master of manipulating elements like Archmagi, the Dead like Necromancers, or latent magics like Alchemists",
		"Instead, they hold mastery over magic itself.  Blasts of pure arcane, shaping spells, enchantment, illusions.",
		"Not as directly powerful as other Mages, they make it for it with the powers to bend and fold Magic itself to their bidding.",

[Judecca]

Im not sure about this whole alchemists are super hard to play argument. They are the first class I ever played, back when this was still tales of middle earth 4. Easiest class ever. If the player cant figure out "blow shit up" then they probably shouldnt have access to archmages yet either.

How is correctly building and using one's golem, bombs and staff easier than choosing a beam attack spell and casting it on every enemy?

How is dumbing archmage down to 'pick a beam spell' and ignoring all of their other very important spells and then comparing it to alchemist while suggesting that using your staff is something difficult a reasonable argument?

Come on, now, let's be honest.

[5k17]

Yes, of course Archmages have more than just one spell. In fact, they can learn a large (and initially perhaps somewhat confusing) range of spells which makes them quite flexible (unless they intentionally choose non-complementary skills); their class trees are all rather similar and focused on direct offense, which makes the class relatively simple. Alchemists, as I said, have to decide between building/using their golem, bombs, and some other, mostly optional skills; I find that an additional party member, limited ammunition and the larger differences between possible specializations make Alchs the more complex of the two classes.

[Judecca]

Calling their ammo limited is misleading at best and basically outright wrong at worst. I think you might even be able to have enough without even using extract gems using what you pick up, but even if you couldn't any concerns go right out the window with extract gems.

Also, what differences in build? You can have a beefy golem and bombs too--hell, you can even add fire alchemy to that as long as you're not randomly throwing your points around for the hell of it. They don't have that many class trees nor that many must max talents--the bad choices you can make are no worse than the amount of bad choices you can make on an archmage. They aren't like one of the classes where even at level 50 you can still be skipping out on a bunch of other things. Nevermind that saying that archmage is simple because most of its trees are focused on offense and that alchemist isn't (unless you're assuming that 'these trees buff your bombs' 'these trees buff your golem' 'this tree is general offensive stuff' is way too complicated for a new player--it's not like the trees are exactly hiding what they're doing) is kind of silly, anyway.

And as for different builds being confusing--you do realize how much more accurately that describes archmages, right, and how all of them definitely aren't equal in the slightest because they, unlike alchemist, cannot dabble in all of their class trees at once? I mean, you really can't mean to say that playing a wildfire mage and an ice mage are anywhere near the same thing.

(also, alchemists get better hp than archmages. yeah, you can say 'but aegis!' except most new players don't recognize how amazing the aegis tree is right off the bat, nor do they get to the point where it's ludicrously, unbelievably good.)