How do you deal with it?

[mkoijnbhu]

I belive this great game need major balance changes. Things can oneshot you, and i mean it, you are dead withing 1 game turn. Bone giants dealing more than 1k damage (cold) at level <40, and other things - check screenshot. Final bosses are nothing compared to random rare monsters that can deal damage surpassing your maximum health. You spend few hours playing the game when suddenly, without any warning you get hit by incredible amount of damage coming from someone that shouldnt be capable of it. Its like monsters do more or less stable amount of damage, increasing over game time, but at some point there is a monster who deals 4 or 5 times more during one single turn. Game over, try again.

PS
The screenshot actually features a unique boss, so *maybe* this is justified but still i think its way too much. Sadly i dont have any other screens proving that random rare bosses can do pretty much the same.

[supermini]

Getting one-shotted is not really common in ToME. It's usually a sign of inadequate defenses or neglecting your hp/resistances. You didn't show the char sheet of the character in question, so without knowing what your level, class, and defenses were like, it's hard to really comment. Low hp classes combined with low hp races tend to be squishy, so if you're playing a combo like that you better wear some +hp items and invest in con early.

What I can say about Massok is that he hits really hard even on armored targets, so if you don't think you can handle him, avoid him (he is after all, an optional boss).

[lukep]

I agree with some of what you're saying, but running blindly into danger is never a good idea. That death could have been avoided quite easily, by checking Massok's character sheet, and seeing that he is immune to stun and blindness (but not confusion), and has very high melee damage and skills. 1200 damage is high (and an unlucky crit), but you should have been able to predict something similar (especially after having your shield broken in one hit), and teleported away or used an effective debuff.

Also, re: final bosses, I'm not sure about getting tougher enemies, after all, you fight both at once, and a critical hit from Freeze can ruin your whole day.

[mal2]

That boss did not one shot you, based on the log you posted. You put up a shield and cast on him. He rushed you and dropped your shield in a single blow. Then you cast providence. Then you cast an attack spell on him. Then he killed you with one big critical blow.

I don't know how large a shield you tossed up, but any time I see something rush me and drop my shield in a single blow I know I need to stop and think carefully before I make my next turn. Especially if I'm not playing a melee based class, my first instinct in this situation would be to escape from melee range, and quick. You know his rush is on cooldown, so using a controlled phase door or a movement infusion to move away might have helped. That way you could get some attacks in while it closed the range again.

All that said, I seldom get characters to their 40s, and I've never beaten the game. Take my advice on higher-level play with a pinch of salt.

[mkoijnbhu]

Anorithil, level 40 that time, had over 900 HP(dont remember exactly becouse i am still playing this character) . 15% resist all, 23% psychical. Armor 22/30% hardiness. This is what i can recall.
I agree providence wasnt the best move. But still damage is too high. I belive he would have killed me despite having a shield rune (290HP).

[tiger_eye]

Massok is actually pretty bad-ass and could stand to have his burst damage reduced. Massive Blow is a prodigy and is the talent that killed you. It's an attack that does 150% damage and knocks you back four spaces, and if you hit a wall, the wall is destroyed and you take 350% additional weapon damage (for a total of 500% weapon attack damage). That's pretty deadly. Typically, Massok will Rush you (possibly dazing you), then do Massive Blow. Heck, his ultra-low cooldown on Rush among other things made him pretty dangerous even before he got the Massive Blow prodigy.

In the mean time, when you fight Massok, position yourself so you won't be knocked into a wall to avoid the burst damage from Massive Blow.

[Dwindlehop]

Massok and Aluin both can put out very serious damage, probably more than any other situation you hit in the game to that point (perhaps the ambush & a certain event if you happen to encounter it). Both those bosses are ones you need to have a defensive plan other than "eat the hit" which, depending upon your class, may be the first time that happens.

I have died multiple times to both these guys, but all my winners dispatched them. I think the challenge level on them is right.

The only thing I think is perhaps funky is that prodigies are very powerful and yet not highlighted talents on the character info sheet. They should be distinct to warn, "Here There Be Shit Ye Need To Plan For".

[faction55]

Massok is actually pretty bad-ass and could stand to have his burst damage reduced. Massive Blow is a prodigy and is the talent that killed you. It's an attack that does 150% damage and knocks you back four spaces, and if you hit a wall, the wall is destroyed and you take 350% additional weapon damage (for a total of 500% weapon attack damage). That's pretty deadly. Typically, Massok will Rush you (possibly dazing you), then do Massive Blow. Heck, his ultra-low cooldown on Rush among other things made him pretty dangerous even before he got the Massive Blow prodigy.

In the mean time, when you fight Massok, position yourself so you won't be knocked into a wall to avoid the burst damage from Massive Blow.

That's actually a really cool mechanic that rewards game knowledge. I don't see a problem with this. Roguelikes are all about learning after all.

[SageAcrin]

Massok is quite late in the game, though, and players of even short Roguelikes don't like to get ganked from full HP because they were marginally inattentive.

Then again, in this particular case, having 900 HP at melee range to a lategame melee cannon-something you can see with just a scan of his skills-and no notable physical resistance or armor is seriously asking for it, and there's not a lot of reason anymore to just stand toe to toe like that. If someone Dazes you with Rush, use some flavor of teleport, if you can't just heal it off. He's optional-if you can't deal with him, and didn't keep any antiphysical options around, just leave.

On the other hand, I'm not saying Massok does not hit overly hard. He does. I'm just not entirely sure how you fix that, looking over his design. Drop his Weapon Mastery from 4 to 3? He did sorta get his Weapon Mastery buffed a little when it went to a five point system(Dropped his Weapon Mastery from 7 to 4, which means that he has the equivalent of an 8 in the old system.). Drop his Shattering Impacts some? Not sure entirely how to go about it.

[supermini]

Are we going to just nerf every unique that hits hard until there's no challenge left? Massok is a heavy hitter, yes, but he's also optional.

[SageAcrin]

Well, considering that my suggestions were "Remove one level of one talent" or "Drop another supportive talent a little so that he slugfests worse", rather than approaching the direct problem of him hitting really hard with a specific talent, obviously I more or less agree.

[greyfalcon]

It's more of a lack of warning problem, because taking 300 damage hits isn't out of the ordinary (elite skeletons do that on a regular basis) and you have no idea that Massok can crit for 1200 until it happens. Maybe highlighting the prodigies on the character sheet would solve that?

I do think 1-cooldown Rush that some late game uniques get due to having a very high level of the Rush skill just feels like the computer cheating though, and there should be a hard cap on the cooldown of that talent

[SageAcrin]

The player can net that too, though.

Requires specific equipment, but one of those equips is just an ego armor.

Really, it feels like the AI just getting the same advantage the player does there.

[donkatsu]

Spydric Poison trivializes Massok, along with nearly every other melee "threat" in the game. 0-cooldown Rush becomes a non-issue as soon as you reach the East, and I don't remember running into 0-cooldown Rush before then.

[greyfalcon]

Well, to be fair the spider rod could probably use a nerf too (and it doesn't help rogue types that much.)