Discuss: Do the caldera dreams need to be buffed/nerfed?

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Seems to be a MASS discrepancy in difficulty here. I can win the win the wife dream at least 2 out of 3 times If I try. Maybe 3 out of 4.

However, when I pay the mouse dream, I can't win even 1 out of 20, and while I didn't keep an accurate count, It may be closer to a 1 out of 30 chance. Now while there is a point in being 'vulnerable', there is also a difference between vulnerable and 'meat'. It's entirely possible to be instagibbed with 0 chance of survival because an enemy spawns at the start of the mouse dream next to you, and another short distance away preventing a dash.

Furthermore, the randomness of mouse paths can often be *VERY* threatening. If you come out of a path, you CANNOT travel back through it without taking 2 steps and if something is there, you have no choice but to gib yourself by moving. (Happened multiple times)

Given the discrepancy, does the mouse dream need to be nerfed a bit and made more survivable, or does the wife dream need to be buffed a bit in terms of difficulty?

[overgoat]

I found them to be challenging, but not too bad once I figured out the strategy. One thing that helped me quite a bit in the mouse dream was to apply the available stat points to con. This let me take a hit without dying.

I'd vote on leaving them as is.

[evouga]

The dream needs to be nerfed; at the very least, the mouse's sneak chance needs a boost. There is little fun in such a luck-based mission.

[omeg]

I only had the event spawn two times, once my bulwark died to a Worm that Walks outside, and the other I didn't even had the chance to explore it (died before that).

[greycat]

Well, I just went in the Caldera for the first time with my level 43 Wyrmic.

Mouse. What. Dead.

Jeez.

I... guess next time I'll wait until after I've beaten the Sorcerers and saved the world, or something. At least that way I can kiss Melinda good-bye, share a pint with Aeryn as we talk about those candy-ass robe-wearers we shredded the other day, and then step off to my inevitable death.

[SageAcrin]

I've heard multiple complaints besides this about the mouse dream, now that it has enemies.

Haven't mucked with it myself, because of the randomized nature of Caldera, but it really does sound like it's a bit much.

[greycat]

So, like, people in the in-game chat are saying that the mouse dream is ANNOYING rather than THE PERMANENT DEATH OF YOUR CHARACTER.

Apparently there's this big purple boss and you're supposed to fight it because it's a boss no wait it's a boss but you're not supposed to fight it because if you fight it then it makes things turn real or some shit I don't know what is this nurse where is my pudding

So.

Is there, like, some way you could give a HINT about what the hell you are NOT supposed to do?

Any time there is a big PURPLE BOSS at the far end of a level, and you are NOT supposed to kill it, that kind of needs to be hinted somehow, right?

Especially if there is a 60-turn TIMER ticking down at the time.

What the hell does that timer even do?

I have no idea.

There is no hint.

[phantomglider]

When the timer ticks down, you fall asleep and have a dream. If you die in that dream, you take a chunk of damage when you wake up. Once you kill the Mindworm, the timer stops ticking. You can still have dreams by using the altar, but if you die in one of those dreams you die for real.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

As I pointed out in the first post however, the opposite might be true. It could be that the mouse dream is where it's supposed to be in difficulty, and perhaps the wife dream is easier then intended. (I hope not, the mouse dream is so ****ing random...) But it seems odd that there should be such a huge gap in difficulty. Given the random and (non-lethal) nature of the dreams, I am assuming that they are supposed to be quite difficult, to the point that they are not always winnable, but there is a difference between quite difficult, and near-effing impossible. I happen to believe that there need to be either more tunnels, or fewer cats, personally. Either could help to bring it to where the wife dream now is, though the alternative is more yeeks fewer dreamstones in the wife dream to buff it up to where the mouse dream now is.

[greycat]

Given the random and (non-lethal) nature of the dreams, ...

I've (no longer) got a level 43 wyrmic who begs to differ.

Also I've got a frail mouse the level 1 vermin rodent who is marked as alive (white) on my character page. I'm guessing that's a bug.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

If you died and it counted against you before killing the boss, that's a definite bug, and strangely enough, they don't seem to mark a 'death' if you die with them, according to my character sheet, they always display white. I don't see why my 60 mice should be cluttering my records though, is there a reason WHY they get recorded? *waits for devs*

And I knew about the lethal nature of dreams after killing the boss beforehand, it definitely needs to be made clearer that dreams are not lethal... at first, and a warning added after the boss dies... How to make this fit in the lore though, I don't know.

[greycat]

I killed the boss.

Because there was nothing that told me NOT to.

And because he's a damned BOSS.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

I killed the boss.

Because there was nothing that told me NOT to.

And because he's a damned BOSS.

Agreed. Some sort of indicator should be added, at least AFTER killing the boss that says 'dreams are now lethal', especially since the timer in the first area doesn't indicate that. Or perhaps, your dreams could become easier, since then they would be your own dreams, rather then the nightmares forced upon you by the Mindworm? Could help to cope a bit with the instagibbing qualities of the mouse dream... And maybe some sort of message when you dream beforehand (How did you kill it before suffering a dream in the first place? That's a 60 turn limit, you'd have to movement infuse across the field multiple times, leaving enemies behind you... I'm assuming you saw at least ONE dream beforehand) about how you feel the dreams are being pushed onto you from an outside source, that could provide a hint to the boss?

[greycat]

When the timer ticks down, you fall asleep and have a dream. If you die in that dream, you take a chunk of damage when you wake up. Once you kill the Mindworm, the timer stops ticking. You can still have dreams by using the altar, but if you die in one of those dreams you die for real.

I quoted this on the wiki page with only a tiny edit.

What happens if you don't die in the dream?

Does the timer start again after you return from the dream? Or do you have to use the altar and face permadeath?

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

After dreaming the timer resets to 60 turns or 600 turns, in area 2 or area respectively. No lethality occurs at all until after the boss is killed ad you use the altar of dreams. I did notice the timer still moved in area 1, I'm not sure if dreams there are safe after killing the boss or not...