Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

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edge2054
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Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#1 Post by edge2054 »

With the announcement Darkgod made of the module contest I figured I'd start a brainstorming topic for a module that I've been kicking around in my head for the last half a year or so. No code has been put down and I haven't committed yet to this module but I figured I'd get it out there for feedback and to get my ideas on paper at least. If this post is a bit scatter brained, well it's a brain storm so bare with me :D

So the basic premise of Runic is to collect runes. To keep the idea simple I'm going to keep this idea to four basic runes for now, one for each stereotypical element (earth, fire, wind, water). Cliche but it works. Once all four runes are collected the character must dive into the void to either free some deity that will save the world or imprison some evil deity that's trying to destroy it. I haven't worked out which yet but I guess the later would give some big bad guy so that's probably the better route to go. So player collects the four runes which lets him open the gate to the void (plane of emptiness/darkness) where he confronts the big bad on his home turf and (hopefully) defeats him.

Now the actual element of collecting the runes will work like megaman. You start the game with no runes and decide which plane to tackle first. Some planes may be nearly impossible without first visiting another plane. For instance the fire plane may deal damage to you each turn without some form of protection provided by a water rune (preferred method) or an air rune (not quite as good but still workable). In addition to runes the player will also be able to find gear as they go along, much like any typical roguelike. The gear will further augment their character and possibly allow them to tackle planes in an order they wouldn't normally based on what gear they found (a helmet of water breathing for instance may make the water plane doable before the air plane).

Runic casting itself will have its own mechanics. Basically once you get a rune you have it but you must power them up by using them. In other words, when you get the fire rune you may have access to fire bolt. For example, once you cast fire bolt ten times your fire runes power will increase by one, which will increase the power of your fire bolt and unlock the level two rune power (we'll just say it's fireball for now). Once firebolt is cast another twenty times or fireball is cast ten times runic power will again increase by one and so on and so forth until the rune reaches maximum power.

Of course, we'll need a balancing mechanism for this. So we'll put the runes together in sort of a box or circle. Increasing the power of a rune will decrease the power of the opposite rune by a like amount. So raising fire runes power up by one will lower your water runes power level. The maximum runic power of all runes will be equal to twice the number of runes the player has and the base power level will be equal to half this amount. At any point the player will be able to rebalance their runic power and collecting a new rune will automagically do this.

So basically once you get your first rune your runic power raises to one with a max of two. When you get your next rune all runic power resets to two and your max becomes four and so on and so forth. Rebalancing runic power will probably have some super effect based on the current balance of power (having high fire for instance may require you let out a burst of water around you to rebalance your runes).

Obviously the idea has a long way to go and still needs a lot of fleshing out. But the above is the basic premise anyway. I'd kinda like to do something with a light and dark rune too just because I have some neat ideas for powers (like a darkness walk or increasing light radius to make the plane of darkness more bearable). So maybe six elements? Maybe the Void could be more of a metaphysical everything and nothing plane (though it may need a better name then that).

*edit* I forgot to mention, the runes will also work kinda like sustains. The higher the runic power the more and better intrinsic abilities you'll get (having air at power level two for instance may give you a constant air bubble that surrounds you, at higher levels it may give you flight).

Sradac
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Re: Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#2 Post by Sradac »

I like it, and the runic casting can go a long way.

For example water will only do things with water directly, and air will only do things to air directly.

But at a certain skill level for each you could then combine them. Use water to create a gush of water and simultaniously use air to create a cyclone of cold air around that water, spinning it and cooling it to the point that you can now throw ice bolts!

Fire + earth magma

Lot of neat stuff you could do.

Do you plan to expand beyond just the 4 primal element planes? Higher / Lower Powers? Negative / Positive energies? Quasi-planes? Planes that represent an "idea" more than a physical thing like a plane of growth where all druidic powers stem from?

You can get so nuts with using Planes because there are very few hard-set rules in the universe then beyond a plane needs to follow its own rules. movement in air will probably be completely different from movement in water.

I had my own ideas for a roguelike that will never happen cause I cant code beyond web language revolving around planes.

The biggest thing that I think stuck out in it and was unique was "laws" or "rules" or just types of behavior either respected or shunned in one place could be completely different than the other.

Fire might greatly respect strength and aggression, so when you are greeted by a guardian there you could try to be meek and polite thinking hey these are powerful beings of pure fire I better be respectful, and they will just laugh you off. Or you could be assertive and demand entrance to the fortress and they respect that you stood up for yourself and grant you limited entry.

Then someplace like the plane of Ice, since Ice is typically "timeless" and unchanging in most senses. It would have a universally adopted state of mind of things never changing. Ice preserves things as they were, and they embrace this. They hate outsiders. Ice is silent, they abhor noise. They are a very close-minded and quiet society, they prefer quiet meditation and study over conflict or debate. Speaking of debate, it is unheard of. They follow a pre-determined set of laws / rules that has existed since time began, and it has never been changed. Accused of a crime unjustly? Think a punishment is unfair? Dont speak out or else it will just be worse!

Not sure how big your scope is for this, but thought I'd throw out some ideas that have been in my head for years i've never been able to do anything productive with.

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Re: Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#3 Post by Pathfinder »

Your idea sounds very interesting, I have little to no coding ability (a week or two of C++) but also have had similar ideas bouncing around in my head for an extended period of time (I think most people on this forum have). Based on the comment before mine, I was wondering how much (if any) of the ideas would be borrowed from Planescape? Not criticizing, but it would help me come up with suggestions, as I am a big fan of that setting.

As for ideas, you could have a central "neutral" rune called balance, wisdom, self or something along those lines, with it's own rules. One thing it could do is provide a simplified leveling system, since although your runic enhancements idea sounds awesome, it seems odd the way it resets every time you get a new rune. With this system, the player could increase the power of his central rune through traditional experience. Levels of other runes could then be balanced around this one, for example, the player could only increase the power of the fire (or any outer) rune up to twice the level of the center rune, when he gained a level in the center rune, you could increase the power of your other runes up to the new level cap.

Acquiring this center rune could be the "plot" if you will of the tutorial. After completion of the tutorial it would remain unlocked for the rest of your characters (a la the transmutation chest/additional skill trees in ToME).

Building on the previous poster's thoughts, if you have combination runes/skills, we could have interesting training mechanics. I only have a basic understanding of code, and none of Lua, so this may make no sense what so ever, but I was thinking that you could store the rune specialization as a position on an N demensional plane, where N is equal to the number of opposing elements (fire<->water, earth<->air...) using an ability moves you in a set direction in this space, so a fire+air ability (say a burning, choking smoke cloud) might move you 1 unit towards fire and one unit towards air.
If the grid (for two dimensions) looked like this:
---------Fire----------
|......................|
|......................|
Earth.......+..........Air
|......................|
|......................|
--------Water---------
then you would be moved one unit upwards (towards fire and away from water) and one unit to the left (towards air and away from earth). you could unlock/lose abilities depending on your position, level, and collected runes, so if you were too close to water, you might lose the ability to use the smoke bomb, but gain the ability to use a water version that had different effects. In this system your power and possibly your max distance from center would be defined by your center rune's level. If you didn't have the rune, then you couldn't use the skill, no matter where you were on the grid.
The combination runes could then be more easily visualized and skills could be more easily placed in terms of the gradient between two elements (think the transitional planes, like smoke or radiance, in Planescape)
The main problem with this system is that if you have more than three opposing rune pairs it becomes physically impossible for humans to fully visualize.

Just some old ideas of mine, feel free to ignore some or all of it. (first post! yay!)

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Re: Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#4 Post by Sradac »

I admit I draw the base of most of my ideas from Planescape, just because it is such a rich and fleshed-out universe. Although I do try to make them my own as much as possible! :mrgreen:

I like the central rune idea. The stronger your centering rune, the farther "away" from center you can become since its powers are stronger. Maybe have it like some kind of...anchoring focus? A prime material anchor. If you move too far towards fire for example, the powers are too great and you would be consumed by flames and die. The central anchor prevents this from happening and keeps you grounded towards the material plane since you are a wimpy being of flesh and bones. The stronger the anchor the farther away from center you can go because its protection powers increase.

Any thoughts on how the planes will be structured and built? With your earlier example that you say need water to enter fire for full protection, and air for lesser. I think maybe Air should be the required for entering fire safely.

Since the plane of fire would most likely be full of blistering heat and flames, you can use the Air rune to create a pocket or bubble of cool air that surrounds you and follows you. Water would be instantly evaporated. Maybe to further expand on the opposites, nothing purely of the opposite can exist in a given plane.

No fire or pure fire powers in water because the water would immediately snuff out the flame, and likewise water would be evaporated in fire. However, with the air+water example, ice might have a chance to survive and be used in fire although at reduced effectiveness. That'd make tactical decisions on just how to center yourself that much more important. While earth would work great in fire, moving too far off center to earth would diminish or even completely prevent you from surrounding yourselves in the protective airs.

Also, Light & Dark are good as well. It will give a lot more options. Water + Light and Water + Dark can create completely different effects. I think that might be where Blight damage comes from, Water + Dark :)

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Re: Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#5 Post by Pathfinder »

I think most "planar" things draw from Planescape these days, it's not a bad thing, just a sign of the quality of the work, most fantasies draw from The Lord of the Rings, just because it was so fleshed out.

If it is a focus, you could add a single "neutral" skill called something like meditation that could be used to bring oneself closer to the center of the wheel. You could even make it something that you need to do on occasion, like a healing or manna generating ability in order to add some more depth to combat. "Do I get more manna for the next fight, or do I keep my fire protection up?" or something like that.

In terms of physical structure, this might be a great chance to explore multiple interacting floors, so for example you might need to climb up a giant glacier on the plane of ice, or jump between floating platforms in the plane of air, all of which would be on a different z-level. As for monster interaction and upkeep across z-levels, you could probably fake it rather well if the jumps were rather rare, and a system like that would allow for unique structures befitting the alien nature of the planes. :D

My main question about the structure is if one will fully navigate a more maze like system (i.e. there are paths that lead between planes, hidden away somewhere, as well as more obvious ones), a more direct "wheel" structure with only one path and linear/circular layout, or even a truly Megaman style system with a level select (in the form of a teleporter at the center of the whee, perhaps?)

I agree that air/water would make more sense, but in terms of balance I think the issue is that air would be used a lot, and some arbitrary balance might be important.

That is a really interesting idea, I can see a lot of potential strategies in that, especially if you occasionally encounter enemies that are not native to a plane, for example you could launch a fireball into a blizzard created by a ice elemental found on the plane of air to weaken the spell.

More runes/elements sounds awesome, you could start creating really interesting combinations like a Evil-Water-Air attack that spread disease in a noxious cloud.

edge2054
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Re: Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#6 Post by edge2054 »

I'd really like for their to be some deep environmental interactions so I'd probably want the combo effects to be based off of that rather than rune combinations.

For example, casting a Fireball into a water tile could create steam. Into an earth tile could create lava. The exact chances of these effects happening may be skill based. But I'm a big fan of Brogue's environmental interactions and would love to incorporate that stuff into the game.

Lately I've also been thinking about a skill system for combat as well. The runes will be a primary thing for everyone but you could also develop sword fighting and skills like that. Probably something similar to what Sil uses where you spend XP on leveling skills and once they hit a certain level they unlock maneuvers. I'd probably have the maneuvers based on what weapon you're using so if you have a 'melee skill' and you get it to level 5 you might be able to unlock level one maneuvers. Swords, Axes, and Maces (to just rattle off ToME 4 weapons) would each have their own maneuver list. Artifacts may have special maneuvers (a flaming sword for instance may have a maneuver that sets enemies on fire or what have you).

azrael
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Re: Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#7 Post by azrael »

"Automagically"
:mrgreen:
Step One: Redux
Step Two: Paradox Clone
Step Three: Watch game go insane.

edge2054
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Re: Runic - Megaman meets Inter-planar fantasy (brainstorm)

#8 Post by edge2054 »

First commit is in. Just the example module with a few things changed but it's a start.

To make Darren happy I think the combat will be pretty deterministic if not 100% so. We'll see.

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