Today I was instagibbed by.. *Help us Balance Random Elites*

[belmarduk]

Not really an instagib, but...

Very high burst damage enemies appearing in old forest maps with the very large vault are a little too fatal. System lag causes me to often move twice when I intended to move once, and end up taking extra hits. This is inevitable on slower machines. Maybe disable rare spawns on the map if this vault shows up? I lost a life to a solipsist rare before I even knew I was taking damage.

To be honest, with how poorly the engine handles the vault I would rather just see it go away. :\

[supermini]

Impending doom from necromancer water imp on level 15. No way to clear it. That talent is so broken it's not funny. Now lets redo hours of early game...

And yes, I know I can get a magical clearing infusion. I just didn't think I would need one before Dreadfell.

[greycat]

Impending doom. That talent is so broken it's not funny.

+1

[Sradac]

but thats the best vault ever! we need MORE mega-vaults like that! With meaner enemies and better loot! remember, dying is fun!

[Sradac]

reaver/shadowblade oozing horror.


Ow.

[Robsoie]

In Dredfell i opened a chest and it generated an elite vampire that the tooltip showed to me that it would be unbeatable (very high resistance to the exact type of damage my higher wyrmic was doing) , and after getting hurt by him highly in 1 turn i didn't wasted more time and used my teleportation rune.

Landing in an open space with a few undead and 2 or 3 skeleton mages.
What appeared to me to be a turn later (could be more as i didn't saw if i was paralysed, it could explain the multiple shots despite so few mages) :


Ouch, they really didn't need to deal that much damage after death

[Robsoie]

Grushnak Pride.
3rd depth (a barrack level)
level 40 Dwarf Bulwark come from the stairs. 1389 health (thanks to lot of bonus in constitution from items), 107 armor at 100% hardness so i can take the melee orcs.
player turn1 : Activate Wild Infusion then Activate Last Stand
orc turn 1 : some orc blind me from afar
player turn 2 : Activate Regeneration
orc turn 2 : something damage a bit player
player turn 3 : Get out of blindess (i guess thanks to high spell saving throw and the high Unflinching Resolve talent), orcs are not yet in contact, so i assume it's some spell caster that damaged it a bit in turn 2, i stay where i am (last stand prevent movement) and press wait to regen more.
orc turn 3 : the same spell caster cast -multiple times- a 180 damaging arcane spell (convenientely the only kind of damage i have only my small resist all to help against)
so much multiple time that it gets more than the 1250 health my character had at the start of turn 3.

So frustrating when that thing happens.

[tiger_eye]

Yet another victim to Stone Touch:

http://www.te4.org/characters/6887/tome ... b58c336d21

What the log doesn't show is getting damaged for 842 Acid (max life was 840, final life was -1).

There are a lot of ways for the PC to die, and most of them aren't completely unfair. Dying like this is unfair.

I learned from this that the player isn't instakill_immune, so all the rare alchemist had to do was Stone me and hit me for 30% of my life.

The last time Stone Touch killed me, though, it wasn't from the insta-kill shatter, it was from being unable to act and getting nuked. A couple or few turns of being completely unable to act is quite often certain death.

Please fix this talent, or make it so NPCs can't get it. It's stupid. This character was steam-rolling everything, which is why I decided to enter the dark crypt after defeating the Orc ambush. I was steamrolling Kryl Feijan too... until this.

*edit* What also sucks is the character was level 29, and I was going to get Cauterize at level 30 just in case something crazy like this happened

[greycat]

I lost a level 20 Marauder to Impending Motherfucking Doom in the Santascape last night.

[NEHZ]

lvl 33 skeleton warrior on level 8 of dreadfell.

Armoured skeleton warrior uses Overpower.
Armoured skeleton warrior performs a critical strike!
Kritiek tries to evade attacks.
Kritiek resists the mind attack!
Kritiek is poisoned!
Armoured skeleton warrior performs a critical strike!
Kritiek hits armoured skeleton warrior for 0 fire, 17 arcane, 9 light, 17 arcane, 9 light, 17 arcane, 9 light damage (total 75.87).
Armoured skeleton warrior hits Kritiek for 306 physical, 3 mind, 3 nature, 8 acid, 8 fire, 122 physical, 8 acid, 8 fire, 10 fire, 166 physical damage (total 637.07).
Armoured skeleton warrior killed Kritiek!
Kritiek the level 25 halfling arcane blade was shattered to death by an armoured skeleton warrior on level 8 of Dreadfell.

[tofucow]

Another victim of stone touch and it wasn't even an elite, just a random enemy character from the enemy parties that prowl the map. I rushed an enemy and was stone touched by an unrevealed enemy. Didn't get shattered but I basically couldn't do anything while I got nuked to death.

Something needs to be done about stone touch. Currently it just skips your turns outright and the result is a sequence of events that can look like this: You rush an enemy. The death screen appears. It's extremely confusing and offputting for a new player (me) and it just looks like a bug as though the game skipped your turn. You don't even get to try (ineffectively) to do something about the status effect, to read it on the sidebar and realise what has happened. Just bam, you die.

Compared to other deaths thus far (drowning to death in Shertul, opening vaults, dying to poison when resting at low hp, etc), I feel like I didn't learn anything and like I got cheated (unlike the other deaths where I know I screwed up and I learned what not to do).

Some extra info: Was playing a lv 19 arcane blade, had almost 500 hp with high tier 2 to low tier 3 saves and 3 heals. Didn't seem like a glass cannon to me.

[evouga]

+1 I'm not a fan of stoning. It's all of the worst parts of the old stun system, with an extra malus of instant death due to large bursts of damage.

[Ragnarok]

Code: Select all

 [ToME4 @ www.te4.org Character Dump]

Sex              : Male         STR:  25
Race             : Demon        DEX:  86
Class            : Major        MAG:  86
Level            : 65           WIL:  13
Exp              : 0%           CUN:  86
Gold             : 0.00         CON:  16

Accuracy(Main Hand): 100        Life             :     8732/9471Encumbrance      : 20/85
Damage  (Main Hand): 153        Stamina          :     196/758  Difficulty       : ???
Permadeath       : ???
APR     (Main Hand):  64        Mana             :     3495/3503
Crit    (Main Hand): 100%       Positive         :     242/242
Speed   (Main Hand): 0.34       Negative         :     242/242
                                Vim              :     1068/1068
                                
                                

Accuracy(Off Hand): 100
Damage  (Off Hand): 236
APR     (Off Hand):  64
Crit    (Off Hand): 100%
Speed   (Off Hand): 0.34

Fatigue          : 8%           Spellpower       : 68.485
Armor            : 20           Spell Crit       : 35.070765192964%
Armor Hardiness  : 30%          Spell Speed      : 0.78027465667915
Defense          : 33.8         
Ranged Defense   : 33.8         
Acid damage      : 10%

Physical Save    : 28.589059744573
Spell Save       : 44.261735742873
Mental Save      : 43.079737186591

All Resists:  56%
Acid Resist(cap):  52%(100%)
Darkness Resist(cap):  78%(100%)
Blind Resistance: 100%
Disarm Resistance:   0%
Stun Resistance: 100%
Knockback Resistance: 100%

Number of NPC killed: 0
Most killed NPC: none (0)

  [Talents Chart]

 - Technique / Dual weapons           (mastery 1.40)
    Dual Weapon Training (class)      8/5
    Dual Weapon Defense (class)       0/5
    Precision (class)                 0/5
    Momentum (class)                  8/5
 - Technique / Dual techniques        (mastery 1.40)
    Dual Strike (class)               9/5
    Flurry (class)                    8/5
    Sweep (class)                     0/5
    Whirlwind (class)                 0/5
 - Technique / Combat techniques      (mastery 1.60)
    Rush (class)                      11/5
    Precise Strikes (class)           8/5
    Perfect Strike (class)            8/5
    Blinding Speed (class)            0/5
 - Technique / Combat veteran         (mastery 1.60)
    Quick Recovery (class)            8/5
    Fast Metabolism (class)           0/5
    Spell Shield (class)              0/5
    Unending Frenzy (class)           0/5
 - Technique / Combat training        (mastery 1.40)
    Thick Skin (generic)              8/5
    Armour Training (generic)         0/5
    Combat Accuracy (generic)         8/5
    Weapons Mastery (generic)         8/5
    Dagger Mastery (generic)          8/5
 - Cunning / Stealth                  (mastery 1.60)
    Stealth (class)                   0/5
    Shadowstrike (class)              0/5
    Hide in Plain Sight (class)       8/5
    Unseen Actions (class)            0/5
 - Cunning / Dirty fighting           (mastery 1.60)
    Dirty Fighting (class)            8/5
    Backstab (class)                  8/5
    Switch Place (class)              0/5
    Cripple (class)                   8/5
 - Cunning / Lethality                (mastery 1.60)
    Lethality (class)                 9/5
    Deadly Strikes (class)            8/5
    Willful Combat (class)            8/5
    Snap (class)                      8/5
 - Cunning / Shadow magic             (mastery 1.60)
    Shadow Combat (class)             9/5
    Shadow Cunning (class)            8/5
    Shadow Feed (class)               8/5
    Shadowstep (class)                8/5
 - Cunning / Ambush                   (mastery 1.60)
    Shadow Leash (class)              8/5
    Shadow Ambush (class)             0/5
    Ambuscade (class)                 8/5
    Shadow Veil (class)               8/5
 - Cunning / Survival                 (mastery 1.20)
    Heightened Senses (generic)       0/5
    Charm Mastery (generic)           0/5
    Piercing Sight (generic)          8/5
    Evasion (generic)                 0/5
 - Spell / Temporal                   (mastery 1.00)
    Congeal Time (class)              0/5
    Time Shield (class)               0/5
    Time Prison (class)               0/5
    Essence of Speed (class)          8/5
 - Spell / Phantasm                   (mastery 1.00)
    Illuminate (class)                8/5
    Blur Sight (class)                0/5
    Phantasmal Shield (class)         8/5
    Invisibility (class)              0/5
 - Spell / Conveyance                 (mastery 1.00)
    Phase Door (generic)              9/5
    Teleport (generic)                0/5
    Displacement Shield (generic)     0/5
    Probability Travel (generic)      0/5
 - Spell / Divination                 (mastery 1.00)
    Arcane Eye (generic)              0/5
    Keen Senses (generic)             8/5
    Vision (generic)                  0/5
    Premonition (generic)             0/5

  [Inscriptions (1/3)]

Rune: Lightning

  [Current Effects]

- Momentum
- Precise Strikes
- Shadow Combat
- Essence of Speed
- Keen Senses
- Shadow Feed
- Phantasmal Shield
+ Runic Saturation
- Willful Combat
+ Noxious fumes
- Deadly Strikes
- Attack

  [Character Equipment]

 In main hand
a) hateful voratun dagger of massacre
   Type: weapon / dagger ; tier 5


 In off hand
b) thunderous voratun dagger of massacre
   Type: weapon / dagger ; tier 5


 On fingers
 Around neck
 Light source
 Main armor
c) troll-hide drakeskin leather armour
   Type: armor / light ; tier 5


 Cloak
 On head
 Around waist
 On hands
 On feet
 Tool
 Quiver

  [Player Achievements]


  [Character Inventory]

 ) steady drakeskin leather sling of true flight
   Type: weapon / sling ; tier 5


 ) horrifying living mindstar of sand
   Type: weapon / mindstar ; tier 5


 ) Cuthalerin the Mireslicer
   Type: armor / head ; tier 3



  [Last Messages]

Shiny Rock rearms.
Shiny Rock casts Rune: Shielding.
A shield forms around Shiny Rock.
Uthut the daelach casts Rune: Lightning.
Uthut the daelach hits Shiny Rock for 0 lightning damage.
Shiny Rock is healed by the fire damage!
Shiny Rock is healed by the fire damage!
Uthut the daelach resists the wave!
Toot the uruivellas is knocked back!
Uthut the daelach hits Shiny Rock for 0 fire damage.
Uthut the daelach hits Toot the uruivellas for 48 fire damage.
Shiny Rock hits Toot the uruivellas for 23 cold, 31 physical damage (total 52.34).
Shiny Rock hits Uthut the daelach for 17 cold, 18 physical damage (total 34.65).
Toot the uruivellas hits Shiny Rock for 0 fire damage.
Toot the uruivellas hits Uthut the daelach for 37 fire damage.
Uthut the daelach uses Disarm.
Uthut the daelach performs a critical strike!
Your shield crumbles under the damage!
The shield around Shiny Rock crumbles.
Shiny Rock is stunned!
Uthut the daelach performs a critical strike!
Shiny Rock is disarmed!
Shiny Rock hits Uthut the daelach for 41 fire, 10 light, 13 fire, 3 light damage (total 65.07).
Uthut the daelach hits Shiny Rock for 133 physical, 8 darkness, 44 darkness, 111 lightning, 256 physical, 44 darkness damage (total 592.11).
Shiny Rock is dazed!
Uthut the daelach uses Deadly Strikes.
Uthut the daelach performs a critical strike!
Shiny Rock is not dazed anymore.
Shiny Rock is recovering from the damage!
Uthut the daelach performs a critical strike!
Uthut the daelach aims carefully.
Uthut the daelach performs a critical strike!
Saving done.
Saving done.
Saving game...
Uthut the daelach performs a critical strike!
Shiny Rock hits Uthut the daelach for 13 fire, 3 light, 13 fire, 3 light, 13 fire, 3 light, 13 fire, 3 light damage (total 60.06).
Uthut the daelach hits Shiny Rock for 496 physical, 8 darkness, 44 darkness, 183 lightning, 423 physical, 44 darkness, 364 physical damage (total 1557.88).
Uthut the daelach killed Shiny Rock!
Shiny Rock the level 50 dwarf sun paladin was mauled to death by Uthut the daelach on level 7 of High Peak.

I was not amused at all

[supermini]

I was not amused at all

You forgot to mention:

Code: Select all

Armour (hardiness)	34 (30%)

on your paladin. You were wearing light armor at the time (Molten Skin). You resistances for darkness, lightning and physical were in the 20-30% range. I wouldn't say that you got hit too hard, you neglected your defenses and got punished for it.

[SageAcrin]

I think he dumped the stats for the enemy, not his PC.

I didn't even know you could do that, that's neat.

Edit: Oh, wait, you mean you found the actual character somewhere in the vault, I think. Never mind.

Also, looking at the log, it kinda looks like the real issue was that the boss was trucking around with high Essence of Speed/Momentum.

Both of those are listed-and very dangerous-sustains, and stacked, they can do...well, that. Looking over the skillset would have shown you that it was actually capable of killing you even worse than it did.

However, rather than even backing off from this nasty combo, you apparently took it on with another Rare sitting there.

It's easy to get complacent with a tank like Sun Paladin, sadly. Never forget that, no matter how strong you are, something can force you to run.