Good/bad newbie classes/races?

[Mithril]

Which classes/races are good/bad for newbies? Could unlocked/locked list be improved?

I think a good class/race is not necessarily easy but should be fun. However, a too difficult or complex start will likely make a class less fun.

* Hybrid classes have particularly difficult skill choices. Maybe it would be better to make Arcane Blade and Shadowblades locked classes due to this?
* Rogues are weak initially as well as having complex skill choices.
* Alchemists are fun and have rather good resilience due to the golem. But easy to dismiss bombs as valueless and to ignore improving related skills which will make the class seem weak after a while.
* The Warrior classes are maybe the archetypical newbie classes with good resilience. Rather complex skill choices, though. Likely easy to dismiss the importance of the stun resistance/stun attack skills.

* I think summoners/necromancers are very fun and likely relatively easy to use for newbies. Necromancers in particular could be a good starting class due to the few skill choices.

* Dwarf and Shalore may be bad newbie races due to difficult starting zones.

[peaceoutside]

Without anything unlocked, I'd suggest an Archer to someone who hasn't played the game before.

Hopefully they'd be able to unlock the Archmage class with that character, because that'd be the next one I'd suggest.

Not sure what races though.

[skein]

Dwarves are not really all that hard to start, they just come with some weird insta deaths. If your class is not viable until level 5 or so they are actually the easiest race to do it with(though trollmire is also pretty dang easy).

The main dwarf problem is orc archers of 1 or 2 above the player. They can kill norgan or the player in just two shots and with bad luck can see you before you see them. They also are around corners so can nail you when you cannot do anything about it.

There is also no safeguard about going from level 1 to 2 and popping up between 10 mobs. This is the other instant death (or flee and lose all the equipment on the level).

It is also never explained that if you cannot kill the unique on the third level you better dang well run for the exit while norgan tanks him for you. It is never explained that it is better to let norgan hog all the experience so that he can tank him better. It is never explained that you should not leave the first 2 levels without fully exploring them because you need the equipment.

Maybe there should be a note at the beginning labeled the many trials and tribulations of poor old norgan.

[wobbly]

* Hybrid classes have particularly difficult skill choices. Maybe it would be better to make Arcane Blade and Shadowblades locked classes due to this?

Unlocks annoy some people though. Some people always like to play a mage too & arcane blade is closer to a traditional mage then the alchemist.

* Rogues are weak initially as well as having complex skill choices.

Agree. My major annoyance with rogues is stealth doesn't work at all at low levels. I'd like to see the scaling adjusted so level 1 rogues scan sneak past level 1 monsters some of the time. A shalore rogue in particular should be trying to sneak past those damn crystals.

* The Warrior classes are maybe the archetypical newbie classes with good resilience. Rather complex skill choices, though. Likely easy to dismiss the importance of the stun resistance/stun attack skills.

I'd actually reccomend a Thalore Beserker. You don't need an optimal skill build on them to start with. I'd reccomend just taking 1 of every talent to see what it actually does. As long as you pump strength & constitution and get 2 large regen/healing infusions on them they'll go far enough for you to get some idea of the game. Stamina management is easier then the bulwark because battles are over so much quicker. Enemies tend to be less dangerous dead too.

* I think summoners/necromancers are very fun and likely relatively easy to use for newbies. Necromancers in particular could be a good starting class due to the few skill choices.

Summoners I found the start easy but tedious. Sit in a safe spot & pump out summons between you & your enemies then wait & watch them fight.

[averaen]

The game is very complicated. Shielding new players from that complexity does nothing to help them mature into fully competent players.

[Xored]

I've just started to play this game and I'm using Human/Warrior - Higher/Bulwark build. I'ved died twice and currently on my third run. How do I rate?

[azrael]

Well, what level are you?

Bye the way, that's probably one of the harder builds.

[Xored]

I made it to level 10 first time getting that far too I've started a (Human)Higher/Alchemist now just hit lvl 2 .

[wobbly]

* Hybrid classes have particularly difficult skill choices. Maybe it would be better to make Arcane Blade and Shadowblades locked classes due to this?

* Dwarf and Shalore may be bad newbie races due to difficult starting zones.

Been playing a couple of dwarf arcane blades recently & the dwarf start is a lot easier when Bortaq has to eat fire. Felt pretty sturdy too, least till a grave wight popped out of a vault & confused me.

I suspect the Shalore start would be easier on an arcane blade too.

Does anyone do the Shalore start in reverse order (Rhaloren then scintilating caves?). Is it easier or just as bad? Makes sense storywise, the lore in Rhaloren camp even refers to protecting the caves.

[Frumple]

My shalore usually clean out the first level of scint. caves (to avoid any useful kit disappearing into the aether) and then bugger off to Norgos's lair or the trollmires.

As for shalore ABs in scint. caves... sorta', but you have to slip a point into lightning, at least for a bit. Can pull it out later, but flame alone won't cut it -- red crystals are immune.

[greycat]

It is also never explained that if you cannot kill the unique on the third level [Brotaq] you better dang well run for the exit while norgan tanks him for you.

Personally I'd rather fight him, and possibly die and restart, than skip all that XP and loot. If I die at that point, I haven't lost much -- only two dungeon levels played. With Norgan by my side, I have a pretty good chance of winning. Especially if I get lucky and Norgan eats the totally-not-removable disease/acid....

[Frumple]

Mm... if I can't kill brotoq on the first try, I'll usually come back when I swing by for the deep bellow (which I get to after clearing out the near-derth first tier dungeons, usually). Either that or go and finish the deep bellow and snap up brotoq on my way out of the dwarf town. It's only two dungeon levels, sure, but they're fairly annoying ones (Poison traps *fistshake*).