Monk

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necronomist
Wayist
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:25 pm

Re: [b41] Monk

#31 Post by necronomist »

grayswandir wrote: Confusion resist sounds good, but I don't want it to overlap too much with Inner Clarity. Maybe half the bonus to physical and mental saves as well?
Actually, I just got a neat idea. What if Ki Shield instead converts 50% of all damage you receive to mind damage, and then lets Mind damage hit stamina instead of health? That could make this a bit stronger, and would be pretty cool thematically, I think.
This last idea sounds very interesting, but potentially overpowered. 50% Damage to Stamina can be a strong effect on its own, depending on the conversion ratio. If it's 1-on-1, then it's usefulness is suspect, since you will be having 400-500 Stamina in late game; so if you buff Ki Shield, or Ki shield proves to be powerful as it stands, then the interaction with Inner Peace may become very strong (1 damage is converted into 80%*60%-assuming 40% Mind resist-=less than 0.5 Stamina). It all hinges on how strong Ki Shield turns out to be, especially with the introduction of Inner Strength. In any case, if you go with the Mind resist option, it might be a good idea to simplify the skill so that it just grands you either standard (percentage) resistance or flat damage resistance , as per Antimagic shield.
grayswandir wrote: I'm thinking about also making this give a flat 20 stamina per level, or something like that. That way it would have some benefit at low levels as well.
Probably a good idea, can scale it back if it is too strong.
grayswandir wrote:
necronomist wrote:Inner Clarity: This appears to be quite limiting-monks have access to the Condition tree (Unflinching Resolve), which provides a similar and broader effect and should have decent Mental saves, especially if investing in Inner Peace. Maybe change it so that it provides a bonus in Physical and Spell saves as a proportion of your Mental saves? However, that would make it quite similar to Chant of Fortitude.
Unflinching Resolve covers 5 specific effects, only one of which is mental. This covers every single mental effect. Having no mental effect last longer than 2 turns is definitely worth a small reduction in speed for some characters. It's also instant, which means you can use it after you get hit. Adjusting the speed penalty is probably the hardest part. For instance, a speed penalty of 5% would make this skill way too good, I think. Right now I have it ranging from 18% to 10%.
The thing is, Unflinching resolve removes some of the most common lethal effects in the game, in my experience. So the issue is, are there enough mental effects (and are there common enough) to justify leveling up this talent?
grayswandir wrote:
necronomist wrote:Inner Sight: By my reading, the main benefit of this talent is that it grands you blindfighting; while this is quite useful against some NPCs (namely Dreads), the use of this talent would be quite limited. What if it reduces vision range instead and gives telepathy all within the reduced vision range starting at say radius 3, while higher levels gradually increase the vision and telepathy range?
I was told last night that this overlaps a lot with some new stuff in b42, so I rewrote it. Now it gives a passive mindpower% chance to see any creature within talent level spaces, as if you had telepathy with them. You can activate it to blind yourself and give yourself blind fighting. It also allows you to always see yourself when blinded.
This version helps deal with all stealthed or invisible NPCs, while also helping a lot when blinded.
grayswandir wrote:
necronomist wrote:Also, note that Monks currently have access to 3 generic trees, excluding Combat training. Another generic tree provides options, but also put more strain in terms of how to level them up, especially if they go anti-magic.
I mainly wanted a will based generic tree for monks who didn't go antimagic. Since willpower is their main stat, I wanted there to be a generic tree for it. I'm considering locking Conditioning, but I'll have to test it out, first.
The Conditioning tree provides a lot of sustainability, just through Unflinching resolve, so locking the tree would certainly need testing. Also of note may be the interaction between Adrenaline Surge and the new idea for Ki Shield (damage to mind damage to stamina)- a very nice combo, but likely not overpowered, since it is only available for a few turns in an encounter.
grayswandir wrote:
necronomist wrote:Stance Mastery: Locked tree, starting at lvl 20. Would include 4 active skills that all start immediately available (similar to Mindslayer Shields) that would each switch you to a stance and do something else (eg Dragon skill could provide healing) and also increase the effectiveness of the stance passive abilities-this can be done in a way similar to Mindslayer, by increasing the effective Stance tree level for the purposes of calculating stance passive benefits. This tree would give you more options in combat and allow you to more readily switch to the Stances you are most heavily invested in. A good idea would be to include some AOE skills on this tree, since this appears to be an area that the monk is lacking in.
Stance Mastery is definitely an idea. I kind of wanted to make skills that affected all stances equally, though. Like a passive that gives you 5% of the bonus for each stance even if you're not in that stance, or a boost to each of the first tier skills. Maybe the highest skill would give you a new ability for a stance if you have 20/19/18/17/16 points in that tree. However, Monk already has a lot of places to spend class points, so this tree is pretty much my lowest priority.
I like the sound of all of these ideas; I also noticed that the monk has quite a few interesting choices to make when spending class points (Combat veteran seems quite good!), so it probably is a good idea to put a new class skill in a lower priority.
grayswandir wrote: Adding some AOE is definitely a good idea, though. I just have to find a place for it.
Some ideas for AOE:
Modify Leaping strike (Tiger), to that it travels a short distance and affects everyone in a line (like Temporal Wake)-might want to slightly increase cooldown.

Modify Dragon's Eye, so that it affects everyone in a radius around the monk; might also need to increase cooldown, but maybe not since the talent might be a bit underpowered as it stands. Does Dragon's Eye stack with Daunting Presence? Do they stack?

Modify Flare strike to also do fire damage in the radius as well as blind-might definitely want to increase cooldown, then.
grayswandir wrote: Also, I'm planning on a small change to Pounding Blows. Instead of stunning for a turn for every hit, I want it to apply a 1-turn debuff that increases their stun duration by 1 every time they're hit by physical damage. So once you get the high attack speed for phoenix stance this naturally gets better.
This sounds interesting, has nice interplay with Quivering Palm; the danger is that it could lead to perma-stun (of very nearly) situations, which could make the early game quite easy. I'm assuming that the the first hit of the Pounding Blows still stuns for one turn; otherwise, the only source of stuns becomes Quivering Palm, as far as I can tell.

Lastly, is Ki combat likely to be fixed in the next version?

Zaive
Archmage
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: [b41] Monk

#32 Post by Zaive »

I had an idea to make stances a little more flexible; make the first talent of each stance tree only usable in that stance, and then add instant stance switching skills that only go on cooldown when another stance switch is used. This makes it easier to stay in the stance you want while keeping the same idea as before.

Ki combat uses the same code as unarmed mastery, so it'll be fixed when unarmed mastery is fixed. The latest SVN already does this, so you could go download it or just wait for b42.
Burb Lulls wrote:"FLURRYFLURRYFLURRYFLURRYFLURRYFLURRY"

stinkstink
Spiderkin
Posts: 543
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:12 am

Re: [b41] Monk

#33 Post by stinkstink »

Another option would be a free sustain, Fluid Combat or some such, that enables stance switching and reduces the stamina cost of stance powers.

grayswandir
Uruivellas
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: [b41] Monk

#34 Post by grayswandir »

Alright, uploaded a new version. I haven't tested it very thoroughly, but it's there if you want it.

First of all, I implemented the change where mind damage does half on a successful save instead of none. I hear that's getting added in eventually, and I kinda needed it for Ki Shield to work.

Ki Shield now converts up to around half of all damage you take to mind damage at the cost of some stamina. By itself, it relies on the fact that most enemies don't have a high mindpower, so you end up halving all of that damage due to your high mental save. You can push it further by upping your mind damage resistance, such as with Inner Peace. At the high end, you're cutting out around 43% of damage taken. I'll have to see how the stamina ratio works at high levels, though.

Inner Strength now gives you a 12% increase in effective Willpower, followed by a flat +6 for each level.

You can now target yourself with tier 1 talents and not hit yourself.

I decreased the tier 1 penalty cooldowns by 2 across the board. This brings them to around 3 or 4 at max talent level.

Various talents have had their stamina costs decreased.

Pounding Blows now adds a 1-turn debuff that causes the enemy to be stunned for another turn every time they take physical damage. They are probably slightly too strong at present. I should probably change this to a flat 50% chance each time or something like that.

Dragon's Eye is now a very narrow cone that increases in width and length with talent level.
Edit: Or it should be. I got something wrong.

Flare Strike has had it's radius increased.

Dragon's Eye and Flare Strike now deal additional damage based on your bonus nature or fire damage on hit. This includes Ki Strikes, burst on hit, etc. It tests each time for a critical hit to see if it uses the crit bursts. This does not include damage conversion or basic weapon damage that happens to be of that type.

I'm liking Inner Clarity less and less, and will probably replace it with something else. All that comes to mind is making it a heroism infusion and calling it "Inner Power". That's kind of lame, though, so I'll sit on it for a while. Inner Sight probably belongs in the third tier, though.

Let me know if you run into any balance issues or such.
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated. :)

grayswandir
Uruivellas
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: [b41] Monk

#35 Post by grayswandir »

New version up. This one should be much more balanced.

A few more stamina reductions I missed the first time.

Pounding Blows is now a 1-turn buff on yourself instead of a debuff on your enemy. It was too strong that way.

Charged Leap now shows the area of effect when you're targeting with it.

Leaping Strike is now multi-hit. You attack a line of enemies, landing on the first open space.

Dragon's Eye was fixed.

Inner Clarity was adjusted, because when I actually tested it out a single point was too good. Speed penalties mean a lot less when you're super fast already.

Shell Crash is now a charging attack. You push an enemy (or several) several spaces, and if it is knocked back but hits a wall or something it takes damage instead. More of an escape technique, now.

Also, I forgot to mention in the last update, Blocking Strike now blocks other damage types if you have high enough resistance to them.

And maybe other things I forgot.
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated. :)

grayswandir
Uruivellas
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: [b41] Monk

#36 Post by grayswandir »

Updated for beta 42, with some minor changes.

http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/monk-0
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated. :)

Sradac
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Location: Angolwen

Re: [b41] Monk

#37 Post by Sradac »

turtle stance is broke in most recent version :(

1. Im not getting the physical resistance im supposed to.
2. I cant target myself to just use the block and switch stances. targetting myself does nothing.

Sradac
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Location: Angolwen

Re: [b41] Monk

#38 Post by Sradac »

nevermind on #1....sort of.

The description of the first turtle talent says it gives physical RESISTANCE. Its actually giving physical SAVE. needs to be updated.

grayswandir
Uruivellas
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: [b41] Monk

#39 Post by grayswandir »

I can use the self-target just fine. Are you sure that's the case?

And yeah - in the code saves are actually referred to as resistances, so I got a bit confused when I wrote the description. I noticed that I hadn't fixed it yet as soon as I finished uploading. I'll probably fix that in the next version.
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated. :)

Sradac
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Location: Angolwen

Re: [b41] Monk

#40 Post by Sradac »

yeah I try to target myself, "Are you sure you want to target yourself?" choose yes, and nothing happens, dosent even spend a game turn

Sradac
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Location: Angolwen

Re: [b41] Monk

#41 Post by Sradac »

Oh btw, love the new dragons eye. Its nice that it does damage now.

Sradac
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:18 am
Location: Angolwen

Re: [b41] Monk

#42 Post by Sradac »

really really nasty LUA error bug. a rare snake monk tried to use pounding blows on me and I got this continuous lua error about 100 times before I killed the t-engine.exe process:

--------------- Stack Dump Finished ---------------
[LOG] Xanywe the copperhead snake uses Pounding Blows.
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'error'
/engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:125>
Lua Error: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:142: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134: /engine/interface/ActorTemporaryEffects.lua:102: attempt to index a nil value
stack traceback:
/engine/interface/ActorTemporaryEffects.lua:102: in function 'setEffect'
...a-grayswandir-monk/talents/techniques/phoenix-stance.lua:27: in function <...a-grayswandir-monk/talents/techniques/phoenix-stance.lua:21>
[C]: in function 'xpcall'
/engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:130: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:125>
At [C]:-1
At [C]:-1 error
At /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:142 useTalent
At /mod/ai//tactical.lua:378 runAI
At /mod/ai//tactical.lua:403 doAI
At /mod/class/NPC.lua:47 act
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:131 tickLevel
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
At /mod/class/Game.lua:995
---------------- Stack Dump ----------------

kazak
Thalore
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: colorado

Re: [b41] Monk

#43 Post by kazak »

Another nasty LUA error.... With Ki Shield up, I get spammed by lua errors when walking over lava in the Dreadfell vault or the poison water pools in the Old Forest vault. Basically ki shield doesn't act well with floor tiles that do damage. (I'm on beta 42, OSX).

Awesome class so far, otherwise.

Crim, The Red Thunder
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2000
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 8:26 pm
Location: Nahgharash

Re: [b41] Monk

#44 Post by Crim, The Red Thunder »

Recognize it's a long shot, but maybe with attention, this addon can live again. Want to express approval for this, wholeheartedly. This is what brawlers SHOULD have been, if they were awesome. (No offense to Edge)

Also, to keep it from being lost, there's a lua error being spawned by dragon's roar.

Code: Select all

[LOG]	Problem? uses Dragon's Roar.
stack traceback:
	[C]: in function 'error'
	/engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
Lua Error: /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:114: /engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:151: /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:1403: attempt to perform arithmetic on a boolean value
stack traceback:
	/mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:1403: in function 'mindCrit'
	/data-grayswandir-monk/talents/techniques/dragon-stance.lua:199: in function </data-grayswandir-monk/talents/techniques/dragon-stance.lua:186>
	[C]: in function 'xpcall'
	/engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:146: in function </engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua:134>
	At [C]:-1 
	At [C]:-1 error
	At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:114 fct
	At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:120 targetMode
	At /engine/interface/GameTargeting.lua:183 
	At /engine/KeyBind.lua:224 
PLEASE get us an update for this, or better yet, maingame integration. Failing that, someone make a fork of this. It's by far one of the most unique classes out there, and a truer representation of (video game) martial arts then some weird boxer/wrestler hybrid. (Again, no offense to edge).
Currently playing under the name Aura of the Dawn 4 down, 227 to go!
Proud author of Orc Pit Restoration Project, Faction Allies, Dwarven Adventurer addons
SadistSquirrel wrote:DarkGod has two arms, one with an opened hand, one with a closed fist. You got the fist.

PureQuestion
Master Artificer
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:53 am

Re: [b41] Monk

#45 Post by PureQuestion »

Brawlers were designed the way they were because DarkGod is opposed to the addition of a class like this, from a lore/flavour standpoint.

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