Today I was instagibbed by.. *Help us Balance Random Elites*

[darkgod]

Randbosses also get more life, more resists, more saves, ..

[supermini]

Got one-shotted by a sandworm...something, I'm thinking it was a berserker, in the sand dragon lair in the east. Rushed me and tore through 700 shield and 900 hp, with armor, resistances, everything. This thing hit harder than the boss I killed 10 seconds before that, and had it spawned next to the boss, it would have been game over. That thing was hitting like a truck. Full of bricks. Made of uranium. You get the idea.

[Soron]

Randbosses have two classes. Randelites have one class. That's the difference between them.

So THAT'S why I keep dying to those. TBH, I'd never actually looked at their talents in-depth until I saw something with a hymn and a chant summoning shadows.

[jenx]

These elites really are ridiculous. Bosses were finally nerfed, only to be replaced by character killing elites. I mostly play roguelike, and can get to the East on most characters. I haven't got close in b40, and every time, it is @#$#$!@#%!@ elites.

I hate to say it, but b40 is a much less enjoyable playing experience than b38, despite all the new additions.

HEre is the latest, that oblisterated by lvl 19 Antimagic Dwarven Cursed on Lake Nur, lvl 3 (yes, lvl 19 !!!!!!!!!):

Code: Select all

Random elite generating
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_TELEKINETIC_BLAST	=>	2
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_TELEKINETIC_BLAST	true	2
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_EQUILIBRIUM_POOL	true	nil
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_MIND_DISRUPTION	=>	2
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_MIND_DISRUPTION	true	2
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_MANA_POOL	true	nil
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_MIND_SEAR	=>	2
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_MIND_SEAR	true	2
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_PSI_POOL	true	nil
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_PHASE_DOOR	=>	2
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_PHASE_DOOR	true	2
Inscribing on Silereda the bloated horror: RUNE:_SHIELDING_1
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682846	learning	T_RUNE:_SHIELDING_1	true	1
Adding to random boss class	Doomed	Afflicted
Adding 4 random class talents to boss
 * talent	T_PANIC
 * talent	T_WILLFUL_STRIKE
 * talent	T_SHADOW_WARRIORS
 * talent	T_FOCUS_SHADOWS
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_FEED	=>	4
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_FEED	true	4
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_GESTURE_OF_PAIN	=>	4
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_GESTURE_OF_PAIN	true	4
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_UNNATURAL_BODY	=>	4
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_UNNATURAL_BODY	true	4
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_CALL_SHADOWS	=>	4
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_CALL_SHADOWS	true	4
Talent resolver for	Silereda the bloated horror	:	T_WILLFUL_STRIKE	=>	4
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_WILLFUL_STRIKE	true	4
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_HATE_POOL	true	nil

Added unique	mod.class.NPC/Silereda the bloated horror	::	1
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_TELEKINETIC_BLAST	true	nil
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_MIND_DISRUPTION	true	nil
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_MIND_SEAR	true	nil
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_TELEKINETIC_BLAST	true	nil
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_MIND_DISRUPTION	true	nil
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_MIND_SEAR	true	nil
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_SHADOW_WARRIORS	true	3
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_PANIC	true	3
[TALENT]	Silereda the bloated horror	682848	learning	T_FOCUS_SHADOWS	true	3
===== activating sustain	Silereda the bloated horror	T_CALL_SHADOWS
===== activating sustain	Silereda the bloated horror	T_GESTURE_OF_PAIN

[LOG]	#{bold}#Yinario the level 19 dwarf cursed was mentally tortured to death by Silereda the bloated horror on level 3 of Lake of Nur.#{normal}#
[LOG]	Silereda the bloated horror hits Yinario for #YELLOW#355 mind#LAST# damage.

The 355 mind damage was the last in a series of 200-300 dmg attacks. I couldn't even find the wretched thing until the final attack. I'd been pummelled by shadows before then.

I also can't understand how NPCs produce so many shadows, as when I play doomed, you easily run out if you don't feed. I wasn't fed upon once, but I had to kill a dozen or more shadows.

[Sradac]

Im fairly sure DG mentioned on IRC this one will be removed, but figured I'd mention it to, and thats worm mass any random elite.

Ive been obliterated by so many of these, the most lethal were probably summoner and mindslayer ones. Having 5 clones of a mindslayer all spiking auras at you is no fun. Same with having all of them send summons your way.

Troll anorithil as well i agree on, too heaty to take down at low levels quickly and their damage spells hurt as well as being able to heal themselves.


And skeleton archer archmage are a pain. Had one cast invisibility and pelted me to death with arrows before I could locate it.

[darkgod]

All rares at low level will have a damage penalty, so this troll mage should be much less dangerous.

As for skels turning invisible, they (and many other smart things) have been able to do it for a long time with invis runes anyway. being invisible is also a huge damage penalty BTW

[DarthImbreedous]

Ok, something just instagibbed me. A... sun paladin? I'm checking the log, because there's no way it could push me from full life to ribbons...

OK: apparently it hit me with some Retribution skill which dealt me two hundred damage in a single blow. And it happened with two pallies in a single turn...

(this was an adv party. Still..)

[SageAcrin]

On the Bloated Horror Doomed, you got a reinforcement.

In general, elites are not simple creatures; Sometimes you'll get an elite that has stat bonuses or skills that reinforce their natural ability set(or, in the case of true random bosses and not rares, multiple skillsets that reinforce, or, worst of all, a triple reinforcement. I don't ever want to think of that Runed Bone Giant Archmage Paradox Mage ever again, or that Orc Pyromancer Archmage...some other mage type, I forget.).

In that particular case, you got a Bloated Horror-already an enemy whose killing blows are mindpower-with a skillset that boosts mindpower and critical hit rate of mindpower related skills.

This is less an issue with rares, specifically, and more of one with rares and Elites both. To be honest, as long as it's rare enough-and it's usually uncommon-I find it neat. But you have to have the mentality that occasionally a Rare or Elite will just wipe the floor with you, and that you need very strong measures to deal with them, such as specifically keeping equips around that could counter those situations, or perhaps even fleeing that floor and coming back later.

The best way I can think of to help avoid that would be to impose a category system, and either prevent or (probably better) weaken the impacts of similar categories. Like, say, if you have a Mindslayer land on a Bloated Horror, which is a mindpower oriented creature, it gives less relevant stats, and maybe a weaker skillset, since they'd be really good with it. While somewhat subjective(is Cursed a Mindpower class? Or is it a fighter class?), it could work to keep high damage threats down somewhat, if it's an issue.

But even then, you'll still get your occasional Troll Archmage, where the traits synergize in surprising ways.

Personally, though, I think the skill caps are already a good start towards balancing out that kind of reinforcement. I don't ever have to see L37 Combat Accuracy or Armor Training ever again, or L15 Fireflash. It's nice.

[exarion]

Categories would be an excellent way to stop absurd rares. Orc cryomancer archmage is way too powerful, especially if it ends up with some of the more powerful ice spells that archmages have.

[supermini]

I like the idea of rares adding additional challenge, but I would err on the side of making them weaker rather than the other way around. They don't give much in terms of experience or loot anyway. Right now some of them are tougher than bosses - and they shouldn't be.

[Burt]

Today was my first day of b40...

1st character: Got instagibbed by a slime at LVL 5.

2nd character: Instagibbed by a mass worm at LVL 3.

My third character encountered an elite troll at LVL 4 that used Dark Portal and killed me in a few turns.

Back to b38 for now.

[Sradac]

Well I just found another one.

Hornet swarm berserkers at low levels.

Too fast to even attempt to outrun, you literally have no chance to survive as few classes have escape means besides move in the opposite directions at that time. I was a level 2 rogue in trollmire, swarm was either 3 or 4. Had 110hp at max, and did about 80% of my total HP in 1 turn. No chance.

[omni]

Naga randelite with lightning instagibbed at 108 damage lightning bolt (133 was its max) while I was level two.

[Grey]

At first I was more shocked by finding a naga at level 2, and then I remembered the Slazish Fens :/

Posting low level elite deaths isn't very constructive right now though. In SVN they have been removed from the starting dungeon and made weaker whilst under level 10. This thread is for combinations of talents and monsters that seem too deadly to be in the game.

[omni]

Fair enough Grey, but without trying to be contrary, that does run a little counter to the instructions from the original post

Now to be constructive: Skeleton Master Archer Doomed randelites are likely to cause significant trouble. Between pinning shot giving time for dark tendrils to catch people for more pinning, alongside a myriad of knockback effects with 'run away and attack' style AI (with shadows, nonetheless), and finally class skills balanced around low spike damage being thrown onto one of the highest spike damage monster classes they're likely to be on the unbalanced side. (forgive my abuse of the english language in the previous sentence)