Liberated Pixel Cup Game-Making Contest in June/July

[darkgod]

do it !

[edge2054]

I'd still like to do Steam Punk

The lords thing sounds similar to what yufra wanted to do in BA but didn't get around too.

[PureQuestion]

One of the six lords uses steam tech!

Actually, that'd be an interesting idea in general... each one leads the player down a certain development route the more you quest for them?

[bricks]

That's kinda like POWDER's religion/class system.

[PureQuestion]

Maybe a bit, but I don't think it's that close in execution...

[yufra]

There are some elements in Grey's latest idea that remind me of what I wanted to have in BA, but with a much larger scope than BA. I am reminded of Andrew Doull's blog posts on quests, though, and think that randomly generating "interesting" quests will be a challenge. Having said that... challenge accepted!

First, I think it would be really great to have the game world be "proactive" rather than "reactive". The current quests in ToME (and other games) have triggers on failure or success that then cascade out to the rest of the world. Consider the alchemist quests: some potions will be completed after you turn in one set of ingredients, but those events are a "reaction" to you doing something. The "proactive" alternative would be for the game to simulate your competitors at some level of complexity. The most basic would be for every X ticks to give a random chance for a potion to be completed. A more interesting alternative would be to generate rival adventurers, have them travel to various dungeons and then have a random chance to find an ingredient. Add on some gossip at the local pub and you can find out which adventurers have boasted about their latest finds, and then off you go to find them. And they could go find you, confronting you and demanding that you give them that ritch stinger you have been hoarding so carefully. Now there is a depth to the random adventurer party encounters on the world map that wasn't there before.

Second, quests should be open ended. Say Lord A wants attacks on his trade caravans to stop. You can go along with those caravans, battle the bandits several times and send them off thinking better of it. Or you infiltrate the bandits, discover that Lord B is funding the attacks, slay the bandit leader and relay that information back to Lord A. The political ramifications of the two solutions would be quite different. This requires more quest depth to be randomly generated for the player to discover, but the result would be worth it in my opinion.

Third, there should be scope progression. If the goal is to become a lord yourself, then not only should the quests become more challenging and complex, but the roles should be reversed to some extent. Early on you are tasked with simple things like scouting out these bandits and reporting back. Later on you are a wealthy and important mercenary... why would you be doing those same scouting jobs? You offer bounties yourself to get those pieces of information brought to you rather than going out and hunting them down yourself.

Those are my ideas for now, let me know what you gents and ladies think of them. Cheers.

[Grey]

Well, I'd say that it's important not to over-reach on scope, and also important to remember where the fun gameplay lies. Dialogue trees are generally not fun. Killing things is fun. The focus should be on dungeon delving.

That said multiple ways of doing a quest should have different outcomes, and there should be choices and effects and such. The time taken to do a dungeon should be recorded, and the skills used, etc. There could be magic forces that one uses that are actually evil for instance, and though they make progress easier they would have negative effects in the long term. The idea is to have every game feel like it has its own world of sorts, shaped by the many nuances of your actions. As much as possible this should be passive, rather than just making you choose between doors A, B or C.

I'm not sure how much the engine can handle dynamic dungeon generation... For instance can you have the dungeon's danger level be based on specific variables? Or the npc types that it loads? Or the dungeon generation variables? Can it be made to load a certain pre-designed end level in certain circumstances? I guess experimentation will teach us the limits...

Some other thoughts on general gameplay:
- All equipment items are artifacts. No iron sword + 2 or anything so simple. Every item will be unique (with variables) and they will be rare. You might get 1 or 2 new equipment pieces per dungeon. Shops will sell them too, but at suitably high prices.
- Dungeons small but densely packed
- Special moves make use of the environment. Requires tactical placement. Something like Sword in Hand or DDRogue would be especially nice.
- Healing system like in ToME would be nice - no consumables. Keep inventory fiddling to a minimum.
- There should be cool super-rare superpowers :D

[yufra]

That said multiple ways of doing a quest should have different outcomes, and there should be choices and effects and such. The time taken to do a dungeon should be recorded, and the skills used, etc. There could be magic forces that one uses that are actually evil for instance, and though they make progress easier they would have negative effects in the long term. The idea is to have every game feel like it has its own world of sorts, shaped by the many nuances of your actions. As much as possible this should be passive, rather than just making you choose between doors A, B or C.

What is hear is "more shades of grey, not absolute paths." Quite self-serving, don't you think?
I agree.

I'm not sure how much the engine can handle dynamic dungeon generation... For instance can you have the dungeon's danger level be based on specific variables? Or the npc types that it loads? Or the dungeon generation variables? Can it be made to load a certain pre-designed end level in certain circumstances? I guess experimentation will teach us the limits...

Tweaking the NPC generators to look for variables in the Game or World objects would be fairly trivial as long as you know what variables you want and how they should be updated. The same goes for the actual level generation, only loading "vaults" if certain checks are passed.

Some other thoughts on general gameplay:
- All equipment items are artifacts. No iron sword + 2 or anything so simple. Every item will be unique (with variables) and they will be rare. You might get 1 or 2 new equipment pieces per dungeon. Shops will sell them too, but at suitably high prices.
- Dungeons small but densely packed
- Special moves make use of the environment. Requires tactical placement. Something like Sword in Hand or DDRogue would be especially nice.
- Healing system like in ToME would be nice - no consumables. Keep inventory fiddling to a minimum.
- There should be cool super-rare superpowers

All of that sounds good to me.

[Grey]

Some extra theme thoughts... You live in a land where many people have demon's blood, due to an ancient coupling between a queen and a particularly charismatic demon lord named Yuroth. When the queen died of old age Yuroth lived on for three centuries as king. His court coupled with many humans, and so the demon seed propagated. But a humanist movement began which rebelled against the demon king, and slew him on his throne. As his blood spilled over the dais Yuroth cursed the throne, and proclaimed that none would rest on its seat for long, and dissension would tear apart all future kingdoms.

True enough, no one person has ever since held the title of king for more than a dozen years. Treachery or ill luck has claimed the lives of all who have sought to lay claim to the throne. For the last two hundred years the throne has remained empty, and the land has been divided under the rule of six lords, whilst the capital remains a free city under no one rule. But as time passes memory fades, and what was once history now seems mere myth. Six lords rule the land, but in the hearts of each grows the lust for power.

As they begin to build their might and test their strength it seems the perfect time for a well-trained swordsman to make some coin. And who's to say you can't be ambitious too...?

You have the red eyes of demonsblood, as your mother does. She has worked hard all her life to pay your way through school and the Warrior Halls. Now trained in the ways of the sword you feel it's time to make money for yourself. A lot of money.


The demonsblood can give you special powers (yes, that whole spiel was purely for an excuse to give a healing ability) which can be advanced and expanded upon depending on certain achievements which may or may not have repercussions (what, surely the demons wouldn't reappear after all these years?!) This would be a method of character customisation beyond the fighter skills (though they'd still be melee or support based - I feel the game should focus strongly on melee combat).

[Grey]

Are folks still interested in this? Registration must be made at least a week before the event start.

I must admit I'm not sure I'll have the time :/

[edge2054]

I just started a new job so also am not sure if I'll have the time.

[Grey]

I think I'll take part with my Hexmaster idea, maybe renamed to "The Mighty Frail", about a crippled prince seeking revenge for losing his crown by turning to dark arts. No one else seemed to like the idea, but working alone I can do whatever I want with it ;)

I suggest others at least throw their name in the ring to take part now. Making a simple game in a month isn't too hard - it's like a relaxed version of the 7DRL challenge.

[PureQuestion]

As a contest, giving a month just means the bar is raised higher than a 7 day contest would be

[Grey]

Yeah, but I approach it mostly for fun anyway.