[b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

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jenx
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#16 Post by jenx »

Yikes - I've had my first fatality, against the boss in the Rashkor PRide, or however you spell it. I teleported away into the midst of 3 necromancers and despite my best efforts I was done.

The annoying thing was realising later I had an amulet of teleportation. I could have swapped it in and tried going elsewhere.

That leaves me only the Ring!

So now I've level 46, done all prides except grushnak.

The question is, do I level up for Grushnak in Orc breeding pits? I've run out of things to do after that. I'm VERY nervous about Grushnak.

Also, I went to the shop and bought a wicked ring. Very happy, even though it cost me 6 levels of saves (from 78 to 72 in physical save). I need another 1000 gold to get them back up again :(

Anyway, I'm happy with progress to date and am surprised I've made it this far on roguelike.

It has sure taught me tonnes more about the game, even though I thought I knew a lot already.

Oh and btw, I now have about 80% damage increase to physical and 50% physical damage penetration :)

My biggest learning curve has been that IMHO the best set up for runes/infusions is:
Wild, Wild, Shield, Regen, Teleport/Controlled Phase Door/Movement, depending on circumstance.

I never used to use Wild much, rely instead on saving throws, etc. But they are often the difference between life and death. I have phyiscal/mental on one and mental/magical on the other.

I''id love room for a movement or heroism, but Cursed have so little immunities I need these. Even with 78 Physical Save I'm getting stunned and burned too much.

I think I'll do the orc breeding pits. I like my offhand dagger, but would prefer a warbringers voratun dagger of rage. That's the ultimate combo to my mind.
MADNESS rocks

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
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Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#17 Post by jenx »

Did it! I completed Orc Breeding Pits and then final pride.

I then returned to West to collect 4 alchemist rewards. I normally only get three. I got avoidance, mastery, focus, and brawn, so I'm happy about that.

I'm now level 49 and have only the final stage to do.

I still have the ring to save me, and I know I can beat final room if I get there alive.

Found some fabulous gear in last few levels, so I am very happy.

But I still don't think I'm strong enough to tackle golem, so I'll skip him/her/it.

I got the wierd rock and decided to drop in the fortress before the final ascent.

I tried the Limnir quest but it is very hard with cursed. Never mind, his death was swift and hopefully painless!
MADNESS rocks

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#18 Post by jenx »

FAILURE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To say the game, at b38 stage, is unbalanced is an understatement.

I got to High Peak 4, beckoned and dominated the boss, a void horror, and BANG, one Flurry by Void Horrow and I'm dead, straight through my shield and all, for about 1500 damage. Two other creatures also hit me on same turn.

After so much preparation this is @#$@#%@#@#$ frustrating.

Edit: In hindsight, I could have been even more cautious, and perhaps prevailed. But this too becomes tedius.

Anyway, I still enjoyed it, but I desparately hope the game gets balanced properly, otherwise I think people will get turned off, myself included.

It's not worth the investment of time if instadeath can happen like this without any way to stop it.

As a cursed I have to stand next to things to hit them, so it's not like I can shoot from afar.

Anyway, R.I.P. Cursinnion.

As I said, I've learned lots about the game and this is the furthest I've got on roguelike.

I won't try again until there is some indication of rebalancing. :(
Last edited by jenx on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MADNESS rocks

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#19 Post by jenx »

Done more research on this boss:
Here are its talents from log:

Code: Select all

Talent resolver for	Cyrolewen the void horror	:	T_ENTROPIC_FIELD	=>	3
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33392	learning	T_ENTROPIC_FIELD	true	3
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33392	learning	T_PARADOX_POOL	true	nil
Talent resolver for	Cyrolewen the void horror	:	T_VOID_SHARDS	=>	2
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33392	learning	T_VOID_SHARDS	true	2
Talent resolver for	Cyrolewen the void horror	:	T_ENERGY_DECOMPOSITION	=>	3
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33392	learning	T_ENERGY_DECOMPOSITION	true	3
Talent resolver for	Cyrolewen the void horror	:	T_ENERGY_ABSORPTION	=>	3
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33392	learning	T_ENERGY_ABSORPTION	true	3
Talent resolver for	Cyrolewen the void horror	:	T_ECHOES_FROM_THE_VOID	=>	3
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33392	learning	T_ECHOES_FROM_THE_VOID	true	3
Adding to random boss class	Temporal Warden	Chronomancer
Adding 13 random class talents to boss
 * talent	T_WEAPON_FOLDING
 * talent	T_TIME_SKIP
 * talent	T_ECHOES_FROM_THE_PAST
 * talent	T_FLURRY
 * talent	T_STRENGTH_OF_PURPOSE
 * talent	T_EVASION
 * talent	T_MOMENTUM
 * talent	T_BANISH
 * talent	T_DUAL_WEAPON_TRAINING
 * talent	T_PIERCING_SIGHT
 * talent	T_DAMAGE_SMEARING
 * talent	T_FLARE
 * talent	T_HEIGHTENED_SENSES
Adding to random boss class	Wyrmic	Wilder
Adding 16 random class talents to boss
 * talent	T_SPACETIME_MASTERY
 * talent	T_PINNING_SHOT
 * talent	T_ARMOUR_TRAINING
 * talent	T_TRAP_HANDLING
 * talent	T_PERFECT_STRIKE
 * talent	T_PIERCING_ARROW
 * talent	T_LIGHTNING_BREATH
 * talent	T_SHIELD_PUMMEL
 * talent	T_TEMPORAL_REPRIEVE
 * talent	T_KNIFE_MASTERY
 * talent	T_DIMENSIONAL_STEP
 * talent	T_ICE_CLAW
 * talent	T_ONE_WITH_NATURE
 * talent	T_ELEMENTAL_HARMONY
 * talent	T_SWEEP
 * talent	T_SWAP
Hardly fair I think that we have to fight these sort of hybrids.

The only way I survived to lvl 49 was to avoid random bosses and being in tight spaces. So I never went to the far portal once.

But the game now forces you to encounter these final 10 or so random bosses. And its pot luck unless you have one of the overpowered classes like alchemist.

So my suggestion would be to remove/nerf random bosses.

It is the bizarre combination of talents that makes them so dangerous usually.
MADNESS rocks

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#20 Post by jenx »

.. one last observation.

This boss instakilled me with flurry, but his first class was TEmporal Warden and he had incredible weapon folding.

And I had 70% resist temporal, with an 80% cap!!!!! (see here: http://te4.org/characters/2460/tome/06e ... dc5edd7761)

So imagine the damage if I didn't have this!!!!!

So I think my case is strong, random bosses need major nerfing.
MADNESS rocks

darkgod
Master of Eyal
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#21 Post by darkgod »

No, randombosses need balancing, taht's differen.
Some abilities scale far too well, report those (and tell me which talent level of flurry/folding it had)
[tome] joylove: You can't just release an expansion like one would release a Kraken XD
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[tome] phantomfrettchen: your ability not to tease anyone is simply stunning ;)

darkgod
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#22 Post by darkgod »

Oh and b39 should already prevent talent levels from going through he roof
[tome] joylove: You can't just release an expansion like one would release a Kraken XD
--
[tome] phantomfrettchen: your ability not to tease anyone is simply stunning ;)

Toxic_Chicken
Cornac
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#23 Post by Toxic_Chicken »

Congrats on making it so far. I'm not very good with the afflicted classes. I won on Roguelike a few times, so the balance isn't as bad as it used to be.

I always check their talents before deciding how to deal with the stair bosses. If I'm playing a spellcaster, then I use controlled phase door or teleport to move them away from the stairs. If I'm playing a melee characters, then I use knockback and a movement infusion. Otherwise, I try to lead them away from the stairs.

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#24 Post by jenx »

I didn't realise nerfing and balancing were different. As long as random bosses don't instakill I don't care how they are modified.

I'm not sure how to tell its talent levels.

Does this help?

Code: Select all

Added unique	mod.class.NPC/Cyrolewen the void horror	::	1
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ENTROPIC_FIELD	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_VOID_SHARDS	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ENERGY_DECOMPOSITION	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ENERGY_ABSORPTION	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ECHOES_FROM_THE_VOID	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ENTROPIC_FIELD	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_VOID_SHARDS	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ENERGY_DECOMPOSITION	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ENERGY_ABSORPTION	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ECHOES_FROM_THE_VOID	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_VOID_SHARDS	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_STRENGTH_OF_PURPOSE	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_STAMINA_POOL	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_FLARE	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_DUAL_WEAPON_TRAINING	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_SPACETIME_MASTERY	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ECHOES_FROM_THE_PAST	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_SWAP	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ONE_WITH_NATURE	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_EVASION	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_FLURRY	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ELEMENTAL_HARMONY	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_EQUILIBRIUM_POOL	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_KNIFE_MASTERY	true	19
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_WEAPON_FOLDING	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_MOMENTUM	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_STAMINA_POOL	true	nil
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_PIERCING_SIGHT	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_DAMAGE_SMEARING	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_TRAP_HANDLING	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_PIERCING_ARROW	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_HEIGHTENED_SENSES	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_PERFECT_STRIKE	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_LIGHTNING_BREATH	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_PINNING_SHOT	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ARMOUR_TRAINING	true	19
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_SHIELD_PUMMEL	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_ICE_CLAW	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_TEMPORAL_REPRIEVE	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_DIMENSIONAL_STEP	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_SWEEP	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_BANISH	true	10
[TALENT]	Cyrolewen the void horror	33393	learning	T_TIME_SKIP	true	10
===== activating sustain	Cyrolewen the void horror	T_WEAPON_FOLDING
===== activating sustain	Cyrolewen the void horror	T_ENERGY_DECOMPOSITION
===== activating sustain	Cyrolewen the void horror	T_MOMENTUM
addTmpVal	table: 0x0d8d7c20	combat_physspeed	1.4	 :=: 	22	22	mult0
addTmpVal	table: 0x0d8d7c20	stamina_regen	-6	 :=: 	23	23	add
===== activating sustain	Cyrolewen the void horror	T_ENTROPIC_FIELD
addTmpValTable	table: 0x0fc3ec58	1	18.143874369717
addTmpVal	table: 0x0fc3ec58	1	18.143874369717	 :=: 	24	24	add
addTmpVal	table: 0x0d8d7c20	slow_projectiles	36.287748739433	 :=: 	25	25	add
===== activating sustain	Cyrolewen the void horror	T_STRENGTH_OF_PURPOSE
addTmpValTable	table: 0x0ff564c8	1	28
addTmpVal	table: 0x0ff564c8	1	28	 :=: 	26	26	add
===== activating sustain	Cyrolewen the void horror	T_ELEMENTAL_HARMONY
addTmpVal	table: 0x0d8d7c20	elemental_harmony	11	 :=: 	27	27	add
[RANDOM STAIR GUARD] placed guard	Cyrolewen the void horror
From the log I can see that it had a quick voratun longsword and a blazebringer's voratun dagger of corruption.

Here is its damage output:

Code: Select all

[PROJECTOR] final dam	134.11352913119
[PROJECTOR] final dam	6.7062196696664
[PROJECTOR] final dam	19.25
[PROJECTOR] final dam	11.986886768359
[PROJECTOR] final dam	3.446808133722
[PROJECTOR] final dam	10.315997856843
[PROJECTOR] final dam	160.14214169284
[PROJECTOR] final dam	16.585647426499
[PROJECTOR] final dam	20.912338059499
[PROJECTOR] final dam	26.614269897807
[PROJECTOR] final dam	6.7062196696664
[PROJECTOR] final dam	19.25
[PROJECTOR] final dam	11.986886768359
[PROJECTOR] final dam	3.446808133722
[PROJECTOR] final dam	10.315997856843
[PROJECTOR] final dam	153.52469782123
[PROJECTOR] final dam	6.7062196696664
[PROJECTOR] final dam	19.25
[PROJECTOR] final dam	11.986886768359
[PROJECTOR] final dam	3.446808133722
[PROJECTOR] final dam	10.315997856843
[PROJECTOR] final dam	165.43609679012
[PROJECTOR] final dam	16.585647426499
[PROJECTOR] final dam	20.912338059499
[PROJECTOR] final dam	26.614269897807
[PROJECTOR] final dam	6.7062196696664
[PROJECTOR] final dam	19.25
[PROJECTOR] final dam	11.986886768359
[PROJECTOR] final dam	3.446808133722
[PROJECTOR] final dam	10.315997856843
[PROJECTOR] final dam	211.75820389136
[PROJECTOR] final dam	6.7062196696664
[PROJECTOR] final dam	19.25
[PROJECTOR] final dam	11.986886768359
[PROJECTOR] final dam	3.446808133722
[PROJECTOR] final dam	10.315997856843
[PROJECTOR] final dam	256.22742670854
[PROJECTOR] final dam	16.585647426499
[LOG]	#{bold}#Cyrolewen the void horror killed Cursinnion!#{normal}#
That's 1484 damage, and my resists are pretty good.
MADNESS rocks

PureQuestion
Master Artificer
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#25 Post by PureQuestion »

The difference between nerfing and balancing is that they aren't always insanely overpowered. We need to fix the things that can make it so they are...

edge2054
Retired Ninja
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#26 Post by edge2054 »

Here's some statistics on those talent levels using a Temporal Warden as a base (for equivalent talent masteries). (I pushed spellpower up to 100 to get the Weapon Folding number).

Weapon Folding - 44 temporal damage (on a flurry that's about 275 damage before resists). I suspect the Boss did not have spellpower this high though considering it was doing more damage from the daggers melee project then from weapon folding (17 blight, 21 darkness, 27 fire, and 7 temporal damage). Even accounting for the 70% temporal resist.

Dual Weapon Training - 150% offhand damage (though the tooltip lies and tells me it's 300 the combat code puts a cap on it)

Knife Mastery (19) - 104 Physical Power and 72% extra damage with knives.

Flurry - 125% weapon damage.

I'm not sure how useful the above will be.

PureQuestion
Master Artificer
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#27 Post by PureQuestion »

The Knife mastery is probably the big thing here, good lordy.

Wombat
Halfling
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#28 Post by Wombat »

Excellent job! It's encouraging to see that you got so far on roguelike even with the insta-death there at the end, I'm not quite at that skill level yet ;)

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#29 Post by jenx »

And these limits will be changed in b39?
MADNESS rocks

PureQuestion
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Re: [b38] Attempting Dwarf Cursed winner on Roguelike

#30 Post by PureQuestion »

In b39 there's an artificial cap to talent levels, I think.

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