[b38] Lvl 50 Dwarf Doomed, falls at final hurdle

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jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

[b38] Lvl 50 Dwarf Doomed, falls at final hurdle

#1 Post by jenx »

Here is my character: http://te4.org/characters/2460/tome/f21 ... 62669be4fa

There has been no Doomed winner since b34, so I thought I try and change that. But alas, I could not, and I doubt anyone could.

The b38 Doomed has some fundamental flaws:
1. Unlike previous betas, where max hate increased during the game from 10 up to 14+, in b38, it rescaled to 100 but never jumps to 110, 120, etc. Hate management is extremely difficult, particularly against 1-2 enemies, as you can only gain hate by feeding, and you spend it too quickly to build up enough hate to do major attacks like blast, unseen force etc.
2. It is simply underpowered. Look at my stats on the sheet:
  • WIL 123
    CUN 104
    CON 114
    most of the game I had a +21 heroism infusion for 11 turns!
    Aletta's Diadem
    24% physical damage
    25% physical resistance penetration
and yet I could hardly do any damage compared to my other lvl 50 characters, such as cursed, corruptors, TWs, archers, etc. Take agony for instance. It could get to max of about 1200 over 5 turns! That's pittance, and many bosses chrug it off with providence. And that's probably the highest damage. In fact, I did a lot of my late game damage with Fiery Choker and Kroltar's Armour, burning and healing at same time. It took for me forever to clear the prides.

So the damage output needs to be buffed considerably. And hate accumulation I think should increase inversely proportional to number of foes in LOS. So if you have one enemy only, feeding rate increases, so you can battle bosses in particular, but also difficult solo enemies.

All my deaths were to bosses or elites. Three were to one in the @#$@#% far portal, which I should never have ventured into.

3. Shadows are hopeless in the new version, because they burn up hate too quickly. I didn't use any with this character, as I had play tested quite a few previously, debuging to get to lvl 50 and then maxxing shadows. At early levels they seem fine, but at high levels they get killed constantly, only reform 50% of them time, and so suck up hate big time.

4. Mindpower can't be buffed through equipment. I had to keep on the diadem, but this was the only +mind dmg item I found in the whole game, except for 1 amult of soul searching (?), which comes with negative fire resist, so is no good. Unlike spellpower, which randomly appears on all sorts of gear. I got Mindpower to 60, but only through pumping stats high, and getting a randart mace with +13 WIL and +7 CUN (Tidezephyr in char sheet).

5. Seethe makes no sense. Generic points are at a premium, but I was forced to go to 2/5 just to keep some hate alive between dungeons particularly. But the 40% dmg reduction? Alsmot died a few times when I realised it was still on!

6. Gestures make no sense either. I got several characters to the East with gestures, but the weapon plus shield combo is just too good, so I eschewed it for this build and it proved much better without it. The major point is that as you progress you use hitting things less and less, so gesture of pain becomes a waste. and the crit chance increase are too small to dump 5 class points into gesutre of power, and the damage loss frmo gesture of guarding is too great. I did one build with this maxxed and tracked the effects of guarding the log using a tail program and --flush-stdout, and it was diminishing my attack too much to make it worthwhile.

7. Knockback becomes less and less useful as you progress, as more and more NPCs are immune. So they just sit there whacking you. And with lots of NPCs, you discover that knocking them back just gives them a new opportunity to Rush you!

8.Unseen force is way too expensive - 30 hate and 50 cooldown? I barely used it. I did a cost analysis/time/damage analysis and it came out last by miles.

9. Dark vision is completely buggy. It never stops creatures seeing you, and half the time, you can't see through it so you lose your feed. And now without pity, you just get shot constantly. That's why I maxxed resistances and CON, to stay alive.

10. Hateful whisper also does little damage. 169 mind damage only once to a character? When it has 10,000 HP in the last stages? Alchemists and Corruptors and Rogues are doing massive damage at this stage. And madness makes little difference, compared say to Gloom

11. Several NPCs can't be fed upon, which makes them incredibly hard to kill. I never fed once on a nightmare horror. For some reason it just never takes. And luminous horrors constantly cast providence which makes it turn off. So when you fight these with no other NPCs around they are incredibly tough.

12. On the other hand, dreadmasters were easy, as you can feed on an invisible creature once you know where it is, and you can land agony on it. So I just watched them and then fed and agony and presto, no dreadmasters. One vault had 6 or 7 of them!

13. I was very dependent on equipment, as the talents just are not sufficient for defence or offence. No on hit spells work for mind attacks, either, so they feel very inferior to spellcasters.

Overall, Doomed are fun to play and teach you a lot about combat, as you learn to take much more interest in the talents and stats of NPCs, but at the end of the day, they are just too underpowered. I survived for ages in the last battle but still couldn't kill anyone and probably only reduced one NPC's hitpoints by about 40%. Maybe a better player could win with a Doomed, but I doubt it with the current beta.
MADNESS rocks

benli
Thalore
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:02 am

Re: [b38] Lvl 50 Dwarf Doomed, falls at final hurdle

#2 Post by benli »

Thanks for posting this. I was actually reviewing some of the doomed stuff. It was pretty hastily balanced for the new critical system and a switch to mindpower from magic so it really needs some rebalancing and this info definitely helps.

edge2054
Retired Ninja
Posts: 3756
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm

Re: [b38] Lvl 50 Dwarf Doomed, falls at final hurdle

#3 Post by edge2054 »

Mindpower is getting added to gear.

Which is why it shows up on the Diadem and a few other new artifacts.

Mindstars will be a dedicated mindpower item (and should probably work with gestures).

Benli if you have any ideas on mindstar egos I'd appreciate any creative input you'd have for them (as well as any code you'd like to contribute).

I haven't been able to work on them the last few days but I hope to have something to Darkgod by the end of this weekend that he can commit, even if it's not finished. Eventually I'd like to go through all of the misc egos on amulets, rings, armor, etc and check for balance, as well as adding some bonuses for mental classes.

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: [b38] Lvl 50 Dwarf Doomed, falls at final hurdle

#4 Post by jenx »

Great news. Once the changes appear I'll try again to win with a doomed!
MADNESS rocks

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