Awesome game - 1 suggestion

[gimli]

Hey all, this game is truly epic and awesome already, but I have a suggestion. It needs much more randomization. What am I thinking of? Randomly generated world with towns, dungeons etc. with a setup screen. If it would work like that, this game could be the RPG of the decade easily. What do you think? Btw there are some games with generated worlds. Ex.: Dwarf Fortress [adventure mode].

[Nemesis1]

Hey all, this game is truly epic and awesome already, but I have a suggestion. It needs much more randomization. What am I thinking of? Randomly generated world with towns, dungeons etc. with a setup screen. If it would work like that, this game could be the RPG of the decade easily. What do you think? Btw there are some games with generated worlds. Ex.: Dwarf Fortress [adventure mode].

As ToME4 focues on story more than any other well-known roguelike save ADOM, a randomized world would be a step back plotwise. But a custom random world module would of course be nice, maybe with randomized enemies even and a simpler, randomized story.

I haven't played Dwarf Fortress but I have seen a friend play it and I also have a pretty good grasp on how the Adventure Mode works. Something like that could indeed be made with the ToME4 engine too, even if the story would be suffering. The 4X strategy game Master of Magic tries to give its randomized world a meaningful story that takes different courses depending on actions the players (both the human and the AI controlled ones), but I suppose it's easier to create a random story in a 4X strategy game than in an RPG.

Anyway I think lots of people have fantizised about an endless RPG adventure that is different every time you play (at least I have daydreamed a bit about such a game) and would be excited if one was done with the ToME4 engine. But I don't think many people would like to see a randomised world replace the current campaign. I know that one person on this forum made an addon that randomizes the world map, but I'm not sure if it randomizes anything else (ie the dungeons are probably the same as in ToME4, even if no two ToME4 dungeons are identical as they also are randomized).

[BasiC]

I agree with the OP and respectfully disagree with you Nemesis.

ATM very many things can still be randomized further without hurting the plot at all.
You can even have a properly randomize overworld while still making sure the different locations are placed in such a way as to not hurt proper character progression and plot.
Not to mention the fact that the game needs way more random encounters,way way more to get to the level of the other major roguelikes.
Dont get me wrong this game rocks and it rocks hard, i love it but it definitely has some weak points.

Instead of having to escort a dozen people to a portal you should have way way more random mini-quests with different goals.
The randomly generated dungeons also dont generate with enough diversity between them.
Take even the Trollmire.
All its levels always spawn looking and playing roughly the same.
Sometimes there might be a small fortress that also looks the same always.
It needs way way more randomization.
You can randomize so much without hurting the plot...

Since you die a lot as you should in a roguelike, and start many different characters the starting areas should have a huge amount of randomization and different minievents to make sure the game does not feel stale.
You can have many different miniquests that are also internally randmoized so even if you get the same type of miniquest it will always be somewhat different.

[Grey]

I agree on more random room types for Trollmire and similar ways to make the dungeons feel more unique with each visit. I'm not sure how well miniquests would work without being hideous...

[BasiC]

Well the escorts are mini quests as well and they seem to work fine.

[gimli]

I agree with the OP and respectfully disagree with you Nemesis.

ATM very many things can still be randomized further without hurting the plot at all.
You can even have a properly randomize overworld while still making sure the different locations are placed in such a way as to not hurt proper character progression and plot.
Not to mention the fact that the game needs way more random encounters,way way more to get to the level of the other major roguelikes.
Dont get me wrong this game rocks and it rocks hard, i love it but it definitely has some weak points.

Instead of having to escort a dozen people to a portal you should have way way more random mini-quests with different goals.
The randomly generated dungeons also dont generate with enough diversity between them.
Take even the Trollmire.
All its levels always spawn looking and playing roughly the same.
Sometimes there might be a small fortress that also looks the same always.
It needs way way more randomization.
You can randomize so much without hurting the plot...

Since you die a lot as you should in a roguelike, and start many different characters the starting areas should have a huge amount of randomization and different minievents to make sure the game does not feel stale.
You can have many different miniquests that are also internally randmoized so even if you get the same type of miniquest it will always be somewhat different.

Exactly! I think it's good to have a core story, afterall we're palying with a campaign setting. However the whole game world should be randomly generated and randomized around the setting/story itself: Dungeons, Towns, Overland map, traders, quests-quest lines-quest givers-rewards...hm and if it's possible enemies/creatures as well, even tho this is not a necessarity.
Also 1 more suggestion: The various creeps should have a "hostility ratio" towards eachother. Like a vicious predator type creature shouldn't attack the player only, but other creatures as well.

*edit*

Where can I find the addon which randomizes the world map?

[BasiC]

Yeah man, the more randomization the funner it iwll be to start a new game cause stuff woul never be the same..

[Nemesis1]

I agree on more random room types for Trollmire and similar ways to make the dungeons feel more unique with each visit. I'm not sure how well miniquests would work without being hideous...

The simplest way to implement it would of course be to have a "pool" of pre-designed side quests with different ones appearing in each game. The main disadvantage would of course be the time and effort that would go into designing them all, and maybe that it could encourage some players to start scum. The advantage would be that you would get a different game each time you play, and that you wouldn't see all of it even if you win.

An exciting twist could be that the some side quests are rarer than others. Imagine the dilemma of playing the most fortunate and successful character you've had in a long while and getting a really rare, rewarding and dangerous side quest. Should you try it or not? This character would actually stand a good chance of slaying the Überdragon and unlocking the Draconian race, but are you willing to risk such a promising character?

[BasiC]

There might be another option.
Since its a single player game and is not very demanding system wise you can intensify the complexity between npcs...
the more complex interactions are allowed the more emergent and interesting gameplay you will get.

[Dekar]

But only if the player has the chance to notice that behaviour before he roasts them.

[bricks]

Keep in mind that it's much easier to talk about procedural generation than it is to implement it.

[gimli]

So can we expect to have some epic randomization in the near future? What are the dev goals for the next year btw? I was trying to listen to the roguelike radio stuff, but since English is not my main language, it's too hard for me to understand it. I can read english properly but when I must listen to it...

[BasiC]

Apparently the goals are to start making a new campaign..If i remember correctly.

[overgoat]

I want to chime in on the side of total randomization. I would love if every new character had a totally different experience. I have played enough characters now that I have kind of a set routine and pattern each run through. If the world and quests were totally different, each new start would help recreate the sense of adventure/exploration of the first time I played the game. That would be amazing...

[gimli]

Apparently the goals are to start making a new campaign..If i remember correctly.

Huh.......