new trap for rogues

[marchewka]

Idea for new trap increasing the number of tactical options for a rogue.

Name: Defuse Trap
Unlocked by: defeating Atamathon. After it's achieved, the trap becomes available to all rogues who posess the trap skill.
Usage: instant
Cost: whatever (say same as Nightshade Trap)
Working:
when used on an empty tile -> no speed cost, message "There's nothing to defuse there."
when used on a tile containing rogue-made trap -> traps gets triggered.
when used on a tile containing non-rogue-made trap -> if test on "trap disarming" skill, modified by "traps" skill (talent level*2) , is successful, the trap gets triggered and removed.

Additional levels of the "traps" skill modify the power level of the trap when it gets defused - +10% per talent level, starting at +0%.

[eliotn]

Lure already has most of this functionality, so I don't think this ability is a good idea.

[marchewka]

Well, i care to disagree. The functionality of Lure is somehow different - make a decoy (range >= 1) that needs to be destroyed by enemy (unknown time), and then set off some traps in the set radius. In case of this idea, it's range = 1, radius = 0, time = 0. So saying its got the same functionality and thus shouldn't be included is like saying that Dual Arrows has the same functionality as simple Attack, as it also deals damage, and thus shouldn't be be included in the game.

[eliotn]

The problem is that the ability is useless, as there exist others that provide this functionality.

Lure has the "trigger my trap" ability, and you can do it at a distance.
For disarming traps already in the dungeon, Disarm traps already provides this function, at no cost. The ability is useless for most characters (necromancers may find this ability slightly helpful for preventing minons from damage by traps), but this would also apply to this function of your new "trap".

I am not accusing your ability of being "the same", what I meant to say was that the rogue already has abilities that cover the role of your new ability, and those abilities cover it better. The argument about Dual Arrows and Shoot is a non-sequitor; while they both do damage, they provide different functionality, as shoot is a spammable ranged attack, and Dual Arrows is a free attack that deals more damage and may shoot two arrows, but it has a cooldown.

Also, calling it a trap does not fit with how rogues are presented. A trap should be designed to have a harmful effect on someone who steps on it, not merely affect existing traps (it should be presented as an ability if it does that).

[marchewka]

In my humble opinion letting the rogue have an ability of setting off a trap upon which he led his enemy would be really useful. Consider the following tactical possibilities:
- tactically positioning enemy on the dungeon-loaded trap (he gets his once), and then setting it off (he gets hit a second time, trap disappears)
- setting a trap under the opponent (1 action) and then setting it off (damage or other trap effects are applied). Useful when said rogue does not want / cannot withdraw.

I, for one, would be for sure a user of such ability.

Alternatively, to cover for the second alternative, maybe doing anything on a rogue-set traps could also set them off? This way said rogue that cannot/does not want to withdraw could set trap under enemy, and then just wait for him to perform any action other than leaving the tile.

[eliotn]

In my humble opinion letting the rogue have an ability of setting off a trap upon which he led his enemy would be really useful. Consider the following tactical possibilities:
- tactically positioning enemy on the dungeon-loaded trap (he gets his once), and then setting it off (he gets hit a second time, trap disappears)
- setting a trap under the opponent (1 action) and then setting it off (damage or other trap effects are applied). Useful when said rogue does not want / cannot withdraw.

The rogue already has the first capability. Set a trap and lure an enemy onto it.
The rogue also has the second capability, if you get trap launcher and lure leveled up high enough.

[marchewka]

It's funny, the way we speak in different languages. I say "it's white", you say "it's round". I dont deny that rogues have SOME way of setting off traps. I just say that adding one more way of doing it, preferably without the hassle of adding another talent and using an already-existing capability of "unlockable traps", would add additional tactical options that could be useful for some rogues ( without investing additional points in an ability that otherwise focuses on something else ).