Incorporating addons into the main game

[lukep]

With the recent increase in the number of addons being created by the community, there is good work being done to expand or modify content. In my opinion, some of these improve the game in ways consistent with the development being done, and could be incorporated into the main code base for a future release.

My thoughts for addons that could be incorporated into the main code base, and the reasons:
(Note: addons marked with an asterisk (*) are written by me; I may be biased regarding them)

Shadowstrike Alteration*: This addon increases the power of Shadowstrike, making it actually deal critical hits instead of just increased damage. As it is currently coded in the main game, Shadowstrike can be detrimental if you have very good equipment.

Gem Bomb Alteration*: Changes alchemist's gem bombs to act more consistently. IMO, it is basically bugfixes.

Racial Powers Scale with Level: It has bothered me that classes specializing in one (or two) stats only can get full effect from one (or two) races. I think this gives more options to the player, without removing meaningful choices. (the bonus to Cornacs could be removed though)

Are there others that would improve the base game for everyone, or should these stay as optional parts of the game?

[edge2054]

No offense to Zonk or people that like the racial add-on but I personally like the way they currently scale.

Shadowstrike adding to the critical multiplier can push critical hits up into the 300% range fairly easy. Which is kinda bad. I'm not saying Shadowstrike isn't lackluster I just don't think this is the balance it needs. It should trigger corona and off balance if it doesn't currently but adding to the crit multiplier isn't good in my opinion.

I would like to see more work on the bow ego add-on though And with some tweaks and balanced I'd really like to see that incorporated. Bow egos are very lacking as it is now and ammo egos are part of the reason NPC archers are so over powered (hello 100% crit chance).

Just my 2 cents.

[Zonk]

I confess that getting stuff changed in the main game is actually one of the reason I did the 'Meditation as a passive'thing.
Maybe it's wrong to say this, but I think addons can be a way to 'lobby' for changes, or at least test different ways to do things that some people might eventually agree can be more enjoyable than (parts of) the main game.

The addons you mention are no brainers and definetely should go in, and I appreciate my racial powers one being mentioned(and I agree on the Cornac thing - was just an extra I'm having second thoughts about).
Of course, others such as edge may disagree on the talents thing(I can understand the consistency argument, as I don't think there are many talents that scale with character level).

I'll also nominate No Traps (at least, damage ones), and bring up that Smaller T1/T2 zones have been suggested for the main game, though there doesn't seem to be a huge consensus in favor of it.

[MarvinPA]

I think Improved Celestials is a clear and simple improvement over the current implementation of Positive/Negative energy. It doesn't affect balance in any meaningful way that I'm aware of and reduces tedium significantly, at least.

As far as the smaller/shorter dungeons addon goes, currently it's very simplistic and doesn't care about things like lore placement - it's more supposed to be a quick and easy temporary fix. Definitely agree that some sort of change in that direction is worthwhile, but that's been discussed in other threads and various good ideas have been suggested.

And I can't imagine playing without No Traps, either. Haven't tried any of the other mentioned addons yet, so can't comment other than that.

[yufra]

I agree with Zonk that add-ons are an effective means to implement changes and allow non-developers to play test them. This in turn can result in threads like this that advocate for specific add-ons to be fully incorporated, and all of this is good. Keep in mind that the development model of ToME is one Benevolent Dictator For Life and that things only get into the game if DG wants them there. I want to encourage all add-on developers to not expect their contributions to be incorporated, even if there is demand for it, and to remember that the add-on framework means that they can continue to work on and distribute their content easily. Cheers!

[Zonk]

Letting us see enemy equipment would be pretty nice(and fitting, we can see everything else) http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=31790

[Mithril]

I feel that every balanced add-on should be carefully considered for incorporation into the main gaime. Usually a not insignificant amount of effort has spent on something that is thought to improve the game.

At the same time the overwhelming majority of players will never install any add-on and if they do there is a significant risk of incompatibilities with other add-ons. So if an add-on improvement is going to improve the game for the almost all players it will have to be incorporated into the main game.

[Dekar]

Glovestats should be added as toggle in the options.

[edge2054]

I agree Dekar.

I feel that every balanced add-on should be carefully considered for incorporation into the main gaime. Usually a not insignificant amount of effort has spent on something that is thought to improve the game.

At the same time the overwhelming majority of players will never install any add-on and if they do there is a significant risk of incompatibilities with other add-ons. So if an add-on improvement is going to improve the game for the almost all players it will have to be incorporated into the main game.

This really depends on what you mean by balanced add-ons. Simple quality of life improvements like the glove add-on toggle or bugfix/annoyance fixes, certainly should be considered. Not all new content is going to fit the modules theme or Darkgod's vision of the game, no matter how well balanced it is.

Add-on compatibility is being looked at and may be addressed already in the SVN.

[Mithril]

I agree Dekar.

I feel that every balanced add-on should be carefully considered for incorporation into the main gaime. Usually a not insignificant amount of effort has spent on something that is thought to improve the game.

At the same time the overwhelming majority of players will never install any add-on and if they do there is a significant risk of incompatibilities with other add-ons. So if an add-on improvement is going to improve the game for the almost all players it will have to be incorporated into the main game.

This really depends on what you mean by balanced add-ons. Simple quality of life improvements like the glove add-on toggle or bugfix/annoyance fixes, certainly should be considered. Not all new content is going to fit the modules theme or Darkgod's vision of the game, no matter how well balanced it is.

Add-on compatibility is being looked at and may be addressed already in the SVN.

I said considered, not automatically included.

I was thinking more of modifications to game mechanics than completely new features such as new classes. When someone has gone to the effort of, say, removing ammo or fixing shop equipment level at the start of the game, is this something that will improve the game mechanics for everyone I think this should be considered. I hope that the mere existence of an add-on will not, on the contrary, be an argument against incorporation due to there existing an add-on that can be used. This since most likely the overwhelming majority of players will never use any add-on.

[edge2054]

I was thinking more of modifications to game mechanics than completely new features such as new classes. When someone has gone to the effort of, say, removing ammo or fixing shop equipment level at the start of the game, is this something that will improve the game mechanics for everyone I think this should be considered. I hope that the mere existence of an add-on will not, on the contrary, be an argument against incorporation due to there existing an add-on that can be used. This since most likely the overwhelming majority of players will never use any add-on.

If an add-on is posted on these forums, odds are Darkgod considers rather or not to include it in the main game just like he does with every idea posted here. How carefully he considers it is really going to depend on the content. The key word I was responding to in your post was 'carefully'. Not all ideas are going to fit with Darkgod's own vision or idea of game balance. Those that do or that are really amazing new ideas I'm sure get the attention they deserve. I know he's carefully considering many add-ons posted on the board and that the add-ons system hasn't been an excuse to leave out good features or game changes.

Keep in mind that for the most part Tome is still a single person endeavor and that there might be stuff that's just not finished yet. For ammo in particular, he might have something in mind for it already that he just hasn't gotten around too. So even if it feels like a quality of life improvement 'now', remember that the game is still in beta and that there's still stuff on DG's to do list.