New races: Deep Dwarf and Gnome

[marchewka]

Edit: the updated version of ideas for both Gnome and Deep Dwarf is lower in the thread.

So, here are two ideas for some new subraces of already existing races.

Deep Dwarf
Subrace of: Dwarf

Ancestors of these rare kind of dwarves were an outcast clan, banished for crime of incest commited by their leaders. With the "kill-on-sight" warrant placed on their heads, the clan ventured underground, deep below the normal depths occupied by mountain dwarves. Centuries of living in strong background magical radiation, coupled with inbreeding, resulted in strange mutations, leaving them unable to cross-breed with normal mountain dwarves. They are slower and weaked than their kin, but possess unearthly resilience and affinity to stone unparallelled by anyone.

stats: +8 CON, -2 STR, -2 DEX, -2 CUN, -2 MAG, 0 WILL.
Hp per level: 16

Racial powers:
STONE RESILIENCE
passive
with each 10% of health below max, increase resistance_all and regeneration by talent_level

TAKE ROOTS
activated power
instant
remove physical conditions
apply PINNED condition for 12-talent_level*2 turns
increase resistance_all by 50%
decrease all health effects by 50%

STONE FURY
activated power
instant
unleash nature damage depending on max(physical_power, spell_power) around char, radius 1
increase physical and spell power by talent_level*4 for talent_level*5 rounds
lower mental resistance by 15-talent_level*2

BLESSING OF THE EARTHMOTHER
activated power
for 5+talent_level*2 turns, enemies hitting PC with physical attacks are subject to the following:
- nature damage equal to 10+talent_level*2 [on talent level 1]
- chance to lower armor by 10+talent_level, equal to talent_level*2 [on talent level 2]
- chance for getting disarmed equal to talent_level [on talent level 3]
- chance for getting slowed equal to talent_level [on talent level 4]
- chance for getting blinded qual to talent_level [on talent level 5]

Unlocked by:
killing backup guardian of the starting dwarf zone


Gnome
Subrace of: Halfling

This small folk living in undermountain regions of the continent is believed to be a strain of Halflings, driven underground by their obsession for gems. Years of living underground left forced them to develop their own survival tactic - combination of quick feet, quick thinking and dependency on magic inherent in gems found throughout the continent.

stats: -2 STR, +4 DEX, +4 WILL, -2 CON
Hp per level: 11

Racial powers:
QUICK THINKING
passive
talent_level*4 chance to remove 1 turn of timeout from 1/3/5 random abilities whenever hit by more than 15-talent_level*2 max_hp of damage.

QUICK OF FEET
passive
increase movement speed by 5+talent_level*2

UNDERGROUND SIGH
passive
increase infravision and see invisible by 5+talent_level*2
allow for random generation of gems when a natual wall is brought down. Chance = talent_level*2

GEM MASTERY
activated power
instant
Consumes a gem from inventory, of power no higher than talent_level.
Grants the effect of the gem for 15+talent_level*2 turns.

Unlocked by:
Succeeding in Jeweler quest as a Halfling

[eliotn]

stats: +8 CON, -2 STR, -2 DEX, -2 CUN, -2 MAG, 0 WILL.
Hp per level: 16

Too much hp can be really desirable for any class. I would definitely think about adding a drawback to avoid making this a no-brainer.
And no mention of the Exp penalty?

For these abilities, please add a cooldown.

Racial powers:
STONE RESILIENCE
passive
with each 10% of health below max, increase resistance_all and regeneration by talent_level

This ability is broken. It provides damage reduction that is slightly better than Thick Skin, while providing health regeneration that is much better than a similar ability for stamina based classes.

Make this an active ability that acts as a regeneration rune. The regeneration effect scales with Con.

TAKE ROOTS
activated power
instant
remove physical conditions
apply PINNED condition for 12-talent_level*2 turns
increase resistance_all by 50%
decrease all health effects by 50%

Whats unclear about this is how long all the increase resistance and decrease health effects last, and what decrease health effects means. Still, +50% resist all needs a "really" significant drawback, and pinning and reducing healing does not balance, especially when I can just use a wild infusion to remove the pinning.

Reduce the resist all to something more reasonable, such as 5% + 3% per talent level. Remove the remove physical conditions and decrease all health effects. Make it a sustain that pins as long as its active. Have any movement or any other application of a pin effect (from another sustain such as Aim) instantly end the effect.

STONE FURY
activated power
instant
unleash nature damage depending on max(physical_power, spell_power) around char, radius 1
increase physical and spell power by talent_level*4 for talent_level*5 rounds
lower mental resistance by 15-talent_level*2

Putting damage on an instant ability is a bad idea. For dealing damage, its a good idea to have tradeoffs. If you are going to keep that, make it an activated ability. That said, the nature damage isn't particularly overpowered.

The second ability doesn't fit theme. Why +Spellpower. Also, trading generic points for +Spellpower is a really good tradeoff for quite a few mage classes.

The -mental resistance doesn't fit, and should be scrapped.

For stone fury, +Armor would be fitting.

BLESSING OF THE EARTHMOTHER
activated power
for 5+talent_level*2 turns, enemies hitting PC with physical attacks are subject to the following:
- nature damage equal to 10+talent_level*2 [on talent level 1]
- chance to lower armor by 10+talent_level, equal to talent_level*2 [on talent level 2]
- chance for getting disarmed equal to talent_level [on talent level 3]
- chance for getting slowed equal to talent_level [on talent level 4]
- chance for getting blinded qual to talent_level [on talent level 5]

This ability looks somewhat interesting, and not too powerful. But why not make it a passive? I would give it a percent chance of lashing back with nature damage and a random deter-mental effect, instead of simply nature damage and chance for one.

Gnome
Subrace of: Halfling

This small folk living in undermountain regions of the continent is believed to be a strain of Halflings, driven underground by their obsession for gems. Years of living underground left forced them to develop their own survival tactic - combination of quick feet, quick thinking and dependency on magic inherent in gems found throughout the continent.

stats: -2 STR, +4 DEX, +4 WILL, -2 CON
Hp per level: 11

Maybe adding a slight attribute penalty, or reducing the bonus to dexterity or willpower is a good idea. And why +Wil?

Racial powers:
QUICK THINKING
passive
talent_level*4 chance to remove 1 turn of timeout from 1/3/5 random abilities whenever hit by more than 15-talent_level*2 max_hp of damage.

Can you please use % when writing out these abilities? By "timeout", do you mean "cooldown"? Does each attack or each damage type trigger this? How does the 1/3/5 scale? I would be careful, as cooldown reduction is really significant for some classes.

QUICK OF FEET
passive
increase movement speed by 5+talent_level*2

+15% movement speed for 5 generics is decent. I would change the formula to talent_level*3 to make it scale more evenly. Adding another small benefit would be a good idea.

UNDERGROUND SIGH
passive
increase infravision and see invisible by 5+talent_level*2
allow for random generation of gems when a natual wall is brought down. Chance = talent_level*2

The infravision bonus is broken. Compare this to Heightened Senses, which grants +5 infravision +1 per level, and Heightened Senses is pretty desirable.

Random generation of gems on breaking walls is a no-no. The player should not have to dig through every wall to play optimally. Being able to detect gems within a certain distance is good enough. Maybe +% when a gem is found to find an additional gem of the same type (if you go this route, make it impossible to "unlearn" the talent to prevent abuse).

GEM MASTERY
activated power
instant
Consumes a gem from inventory, of power no higher than talent_level.
Grants the effect of the gem for 15+talent_level*2 turns.

Granting the player a gem slot, and having them equip gems there of gem level up to talent_level, would be more sensible. (They can't unlearn this ability, and replacing a gem destroys the original.) This ability sounds like too much micromanagement, and a pretty weak effect for the sacrifice of a gem.


Problem with this race is too many passives and no coherent theme.

[Postman]

New Dwarf seems too generic to me.

Gnome - I like this idea.

Problem with this race is too many passives and no coherent theme.

As I understand it's a magic/psi/fighter hybrid halfling, as alternative to pure fighter or shooter. That explain willpower, but I would also add magic to balance, like
-2 STR, +3 DEX, +3 WILL, +2 MAG ,-2 CON

Granting the player a gem slot, and having them equip gems there of gem level up to talent_level, would be more sensible.

That is a great idea! That would also point out to connection between Halflings and Yeeks - great from lore point of view.
And unlocking Gnome could be killing Yeek while being Halfling
Also old Halfling should be renamed to subrace name. "Hobbledehoy" (Scots)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfling

[marchewka]

re: Gnome
The idea was precisely that - to have them as cousins of halflings who depend less on the stealth/luck/high Hp that halflings do, but rather on their quickness of feet, quick wits, willpower, and goods they do find underground (affinity to gems).

And in game mechanic terms - to have them fragile-but-tougher than yeeks, race with utility survival skills.

Your idea to have them connected even more to Yeeks fits in even better!

regarding magic - i do not think they should have big magic boost, the willpower one is reasonable as it takes lots of willpower for aboveground specie to change their habitat to the underground one.

As for the gem slot instead of usable gems - a brilliant idea!

Thus, the updated proposal:

Gnome
Subrace of: Halfling

This small folk living in undermountain regions of the continent is believed to be a strain of Halflings, driven underground by their obsession for gems. Years of living underground left forced them to develop their own survival tactic - combination of quick feet, quick thinking and dependency on magic inherent in gems found throughout the continent.

stats: -2 STR, +3 DEX, +3 WILL, +1 MAG, -2 CON
Hp per level: 10

Racial powers:
QUICK THINKING
activated power

[fluff]
Gnomes are great adaptors. At least those who survived. Survival forced them to become quick thinkers, quick learners, and quick adaptors. When in dangerous situation, gnomes activate an almost-supernatural danger sense that allows them to get out of even tightest of situations.

With this power active, each damage taken by the gnome has a chance to reduce cooldown on some of his talents.
[/fluff]

instant activation
activated once per 50-talent_level*5 turns

for 10 turns, (10+talent_level*2)% chance to remove 1 turn of timeout from talent_level random abilities whenever hit by more than 15-talent_level max_hp of damage between player rounds (or in a attack routine of one enemy).

QUICK OF FEET
passive

[fluff]
Living in harsh underground environments is not for the weak, nor for the slow ones. When in danger, the preferred tactic of gnomes is to run until enemy is left long behind. Furthermore, they learned to move in a slightly erratic pattern, becoming harder targets for any potential enemies.

With this power, movement speed of gnomes is increased by %, while ranged and melee defenses are increased by %.
[/fluff]

increase movement speed by talent_level*3%
increase melee and ranged defense by talent_levle when moving
(mechanic wise - each movement granting Quick of Feet affect for 1 round, the effect increases defense and ranged defense by talent_level)

UNDERGROUND SIGH
sustained power

[fluff]
Survival underground is not only fleeing and hiding. It's also gathering food. Being so small and fragile, Gnomes learned how to hunt efficiently - how to detect their pray from afar, how to creep upon them slowly and silently, and how to kill it in a short series of decisive strikes.

With this power active:
- movement speed is lowered by %
on talent level 1 - infravision is increased by %
on talent level 2 - see invisible is increased by %
on talent level 4- physical and spell critical chance is increased by %
on talent level 5- physical and spell critical multiplier is increased by %
[/fluff]

while sustained:
- movement speed lowered by (10-talent level)%
- increase infravision and see invisible by (talent_level*1.5)%
- increase physical and spell critical chance by talent_level%
- increase physical and spell critical multiplier by talent_level%

GEM MASTERY
passive
grants a GEM slot, destroys the gem when putting it in the slot.
Can put gem of maximum level qual to talent_level

Unlocked by:
Questioning/Torturing and then killing Yeek Wayist as a Halfling

Please let me know what do you think of the updated proposal!

[marchewka]

re: Deep Dwarf

Sure high Hp is not something to avoid, but it mostly protects against burst of damage - in prolonged fights against tough uniques it's the refreshal rate of resources that matters most. Thus i don't think in such shape as it was posted Deep Dwarf would be a no-brainer, at least not anymore than Mountain Dwarves are.

Other than that - excellent comments! Here's an update on the Deep Dwarf proposal. Now's the time to unleash the fury on it.

Deep Dwarf
Subrace of: Dwarf

Ancestors of these rare kind of dwarves were an outcast clan, banished for crime of incest commited by their leaders. With the "kill-on-sight" warrant placed on their heads, the clan ventured underground, deep below the normal depths occupied by mountain dwarves. Centuries of living in strong background magical radiation, coupled with inbreeding, resulted in strange mutations, leaving them unable to cross-breed with normal mountain dwarves. They are slower and weaked than their kin, but possess unearthly resilience and affinity to stone unparallelled by anyone.

stats: +8 CON, -2 STR, -2 DEX, -2 CUN, -2 MAG, 0 WILL.
Hp per level: 16
Xp penalty: 160%

Racial powers:
STONE RESILIENCE
activated ability

[fluff]
Only the strong can live underground and survive to tell the tale. For Deep Dwarves, the survival is easier thanks to their affinity with surrounding stone. Once per X they can evoke the sympathetic link they share with the earth itself, increasing their resilience and easing their wounds.
[/fluff]

cooldown: 50-talent_level*5
when activated:
- regeneration equal to 50*(CON mod 20) spread over 5 rounds
- for 5+talent_level rounds - for each full 10% of health below max, increase physical_save by talent_level

TAKE ROOTS
sustained power
instant

[fluff]
Years of living underground made Deep Dwarves grow special affinity for the earth. They fight best when not moving, with their feet put firmly to the ground. They even developped a special fighting trance, in which they do not move their feet at all, and gain additional bonuses to armor and physical saves.
[/fluff]

apply PINNED condition
increase resistance_all by 5+talent_level*2%
increase physical save by 5+talent_level*2
increase armor by 5+talent_level*2

STONE FURY
activated power
lasts for 5+talent_level*2 rounds
cooldown of 50-talent_level*5
instant activation

[fluff]
At some point in their lifetimes, Deep Dwarves learn to evoke the dreadful Stone Fury - an ability in which they enter a trance focused on annihilation of their enemies. First they burst out with a wide spread damage, and then tighten their muscles in such a way as to optimize both their damage dealing and survival characteristic.
[/fluff]

unleash nature damage equal to max(physical_power, spell_power)*1.5 around char, radius 1
increase physical power by 5+talent_level*2
increase armor penetration by talent_level*2
increase armor by 5+talent_level*2

BLESSING OF THE EARTHMOTHER
passive power

[fluff]
Powerful enough Deep Dwarves can undergo an Earth's Blessing ritual - an extremely dangerous task that involves one month of lone survival in the underground while equipped only with a shart of onyx and own wits. Upon completion, they receive special blessing on the Earthmother - their enemies suffer serie of detrimental effects, and are seriously handicapped when they try attack earth's chosen.
[/fluff]

enemies hitting PC with physical attacks are subject to the following:
- nature damage equal to 10+talent_level*2 [on talent level 1]
- chance to lower armor by 10+talent_level, equal to talent_level*2 [on talent level 2]
- chance for getting disarmed equal to talent_level, and the level 2 effect chance doubled [on talent level 3]
- chance for getting slowed equal to talent_level, and the level 3 effect chance doubled [on talent level 4]
- chance for getting blinded qual to talent_level, and the level 4 effect chance doubled [on talent level 5]

Unlocked by:
killing backup guardian of the starting dwarf zone

[bricks]

@Quick Thinking: Cool effect. I almost think it would be better as a passive, with a lower overall chance.

@Quick of Feet: "Fleet-Footed" might be a better name. In general I'm not too excited about this skill, since 1) non-zero movement speeds complicate gameplay and 2) increased defense is only practical within a very tight range.

@Underground Sigh: Weird name. % Infravision increase is highly impractical, it *might* amount to +1 infravision in a normal game.

@Gem Slot: No need to destroy the gem. Gems aren't that rare, so you're really just creating extra hikes for the player. It's also easier to code if it's just a normal slot.

Overall I'm not super into the gnomes. A few thoughts, though they start to really get outside what I think is established lore: Make Gnomes blind but give them considerable infravision-related powers. Associate Gnomes with Chronomancy.

@Stone Resilience: The secondary effect is kind of complicated. If it used the player's health at time of activating, it would be an interesting trade-off. If it changes dynamically, it's kind of self-defeating.

@Take Roots, Stone Fury: The effects overlap too much, and I don't think they are particularly interesting. Maybe consolidate these two.

@Blessing of the Earthmother: Too complicated IMO. I also don't really understand the flavor. ToME doesn't have benevolent deities.

Deep Dwarves just seem way, way too defensive. Compared to the two most defensive races they still seem over the top. The only way to balance them would be to severely penalize damage, which would ultimately only serve to slow down gameplay. I'd say that burst damage protection is the single most valuable trait.

I'm not really into races that seem like they were nicked from DnD, although your takes on them aren't that generic. In ToME's lore there are many races of halflings, which might be worth looking at. Though they might be all dead. Dwarves I could understand never having subraces, since they are so isolated. Regardless, I like some of your ideas and I think you should keep developing these.

[eliotn]

For quick thinking, it looks better as a passive. It would reduce some cooldowns by 1 if they lost a good percentage of their health in one turn (don't do per attack, as it is. One nice feature of it is an inherent counter to stun. I don't like % chance for each attack.

Another idea I like is having some talents (with a maximum cooldown of X) instantly finish cooling down if they are reduced to a low percentage of health. Thus giving them more options when they are in a vulnerable spot. This would only happen once every 20 turns or so, to prevent it from being exploitable.

@Quick of Feet
It looks like there is a typo in your explanation. However, this may actually make more sense as an activated ability. Pop it to gain temporary increased movement speed, scalable with dexterity. This talent would have no need for defense bonuses. Maybe this should be swapped with quick thinking?

@Underground Sigh
This feels too similar to one of the wizard spells, and doesn't fit the fluff well, as being able to backstab enemies (like the rogue) is different from +Critical%. And see invisible and infravision should have numerical bonuses, not percent bonuses.

I think +Infravision and Light radius is set to 0 while you are in this mode, your movement speed is halved, and there is a chance for non-elite creatures to ignore you unless they see you attack. Also, you can't activate this if creatures are nearby. If you attack an ignored creature, more damage for you and it breaks this effect. Also, this effect does not stack with stealth.

[Nemesis1]

In Dungeon Crawl, Deep Dwarves are incredably resistant to damage but unlike all other species ("races") except for Vampires without blood, they can never regenerate hp just by waiting.

Could something be a suitable weakness for the ToME4 Deep Dwarf to balance its sturdiness? Just taking away the hp regen would of course not do the trick (it would just mean a lot of tedious waiting between using infusions or talents), but maybe a big minus to all healing would do the trick? That would mean the Deep Dwarf players have to worry about slowly but steadily being weaned down in longer battles?