Balancing Insatiable Ego

[edge2054]

Devorius, I'm not suggesting we take things that far. I understand some people really like the Insatiable ego but the thing is that every class in the game was coded without a mechanic like this in mind. It basically destroys the very idea of a resource bar for some classes (rogues and shadow blades for instance) and the way it currently works it's still a really good ego for classes that don't even use a weapon (corruptors, mages, anorithil).

I'm not opposed to redesigning it in the future. For now though I'd like to just comment it out and give Bulwarks and Berserkers some more interesting choices for when they're dry on stamina (such as the Conditioning tree).

[Devorius]

Edge2054 Didn't mean to suggest you meant that.

I was just using exaggeration to illustrate my rant, which was not directed at you or anyone else (just to make that clear). I still think, however, that the threshold mechanic I pointed out would work well at deterring uberuse (tm) while allowing the option to remain available. Vampiric weapons can be interesting, though I agree as it is insatiable as currently implemented is not ideal.

Actually, I think it may be also interesting to require them to be unlocked via a side quest string. Perhaps a vampiric knight that has occupied a fortress city (Suikoden, anyone? )...

[tiger_eye]

Egos that give specific resources already exist, though, so insatiable "done right" would most likely strongly resemble them. For example, there are egos that give +stamina per turn and +stamina when hit.

"What does 'resource leech' do?" is a question nearly every player has asked or looked up, because it's so friggin' ambiguous. A "one size fits all" mechanic that works on all resources in different ways just doesn't do it for me, because it doesn't make any sense even after you know what's going on. If a resource leech is desired for a specific resource (or two), then make resource leech egos (or artifacts) for just that resource and be clear exactly what's going on. Leeching equilibrium, for example, simply doesn't fit thematically, whereas leeching vim or whatever may make sense.

[edge2054]

Yeah, I'd like to code some artifacts up soon. Specific resource leech items that actually drain resources from the target are a few I had in mind. A horror based artifact that drained Psi, Hate, or Vim for instance would be fitting. There's a lot of other thematic ways to do it.

But I agree with tiger_eye, a generic 'resource leech' really isn't all that interesting or easy to balance. Some resources just aren't meant to regen or be easily restored in combat and things like Hate and Stamina are good examples of mechanics not designed with this ego in mind. Momentum for instance wold need to be completely rebalanced 'around' the current Insatiable if it stuck around as would numerous other stamina based talents. It's much easier from a balance perspective to say, 'hey, let's add this artifact that gives back this much stamina when this happens.' And balance said artifact 'around' the talents and the needs of the resource rather then the other way around.

[Rectifier]

Instead of immediately adding the complexity of a true leeching ego, why not create a simpler version that fulfills the same role?

What if there was an ego (for regular items or artifacts, idc which) that deals a damage type X and returns Y resource but only when using the weapon; like the life "leech" of Skullcleaver?

Example for a melee ego:
Weapon of <coolname>
base power
other stats
on hit: deals <random number that uses the range of other ego damage types> damage
returns <relevant resource> on hit

This type of ego would allow for consistent tier-based numbers based on balanced integers/decimals rather than a random chance; assuming the player hits the target. This could be easily adapted to an ego only found on a specific artifact.

Example of a caster ego:
staff/robe/hate of <coolname>
base power
other stats
on <relevant resource> talent use: return <relevant resource>

Again, would allow for consistent tier-based numbers based on balanced integers/decimals rather than a random chance; assuming the player is using a talent with the right resource. This could be easily adapted to an ego only found on a specific artifact. Also if this is considered too overpowered in general, the actual mechanism could work only on the condition that said caster is lower than an arbitrary number...like 25% of their relevant resource's total pool; or something fun like being lower than 25% of their total hp .

But then what about hybrids!
item of <coolname>
base stats
other stats
active: <name>'s bloom

Based on the racial ability that higher humans can use, which replenishes a small amount of all resources EXCEPT hp, souls, and arrows. This version would mirror the original in that it is an instant cast and instant use and has a very long cooldown period; BUT, does not scale with constitution, or any stat for that matter. This would prevent abuse from classes who can spam constitution early game and their utility does not suffer (I'm looking at you Berserker). Could be an artifact with the restriction that use of the active would only be available to hybrids like shadow blade and temporal warden.

[marvalis]

Just dropping my 2 cents in here:
I vote for removal.

Resource management should be inherent to class design to prevent the game mechanics of those resources to become meaningles.

As posted in 'favorite game breakers':

Got a pretty nice summoner one.

Hydra (Grand Entrance) + Fire Drake (Grand Entrance) (+ Whoever Else) + Resource Leech

The hydra's poison cloud counts as damage from you, so it triggers resource leech. The DoT is fairly piddly, but each target it hits, including your own summons, gives a leech chance. Fire Drake's Grand Entrance calls up three hatchlings, so in two turns you have five summons on the field and getting leeched, on top of whatever enemies you catch in the cloud. I had a pretty good leech weapon (30% for 10) and it basically negates equilibrium costs while the poison's up, but I expect even with a weaker leech it could at least heavily mitigate them.

This makes equilibrium completely redundant, and is not aceptable.