Stairscumming?

[Pyris311]

Awwwww....

I'll never beat this game now. Oh well. It's still fun. I just can't ever hope to beat it, even in adventure mode (i.e. baby mode).

[Fela]

I really like the Weirdling Beast fight. It is a good test for any character, and it can reveal if you've made your character too defensive. I think it is unfortunate that stair-scumming is possible here. I think a different layout could help. For example, don't allow the player to return to the stairs while fighting the Weirdling Beast. But, still allow the player to retreat somewhere safe. I would do this by having a teleportation circle nearby that could teleport you to an unconnected room. This would let the player heal, but it also lets the Weirdling Beast recover.

The problem, as I see it, is the delay before getting the chest. Sure, you can wait a long time before going there and then defeat the monster easily. But this means that the chest becomes available much later in the game. Since it hugely reduces boring micromanagement this would be very unfortunate.

Man, you all keep mentioning said chest and i have yet to even SEE it (or that weirdling boss) since my return...

[Rectifier]

You have to obtain the chest in b36 before you get 'born' with it on every new character.

Think of it as a penalty for stairscumming the weirdling too much.

[Dekar]

The new weirdling beast has a speed rune for multiple turns of 600% global speed and enough skills to make use of it. And thats in addition to its 6 cooldown 400 heal and 10 cooldown 400 regen infusion.

Code: Select all

	resolvers.talents{
		[Talents.T_ACID_BLOOD]=4,
		[Talents.T_BONE_GRAB]=4,
		[Talents.T_BONE_SHIELD]=3,
		[Talents.T_MIND_SEAR]=4,
		[Talents.T_TELEKINETIC_BLAST]=4,
		[Talents.T_GLOOM]=5,
		[Talents.T_SOUL_ROT]=3,
		[Talents.T_CORRUPTED_NEGATION]=4,
		[Talents.T_TIME_PRISON]=1,
		[Talents.T_STARFALL]=3,
		[Talents.T_MANATHRUST]=4,
		[Talents.T_FREEZE]=2,
	},
	max_inscriptions = 6,
	resolvers.inscription("INFUSION:_HEALING", {cooldown=6, dur=5, heal=400}),
	resolvers.inscription("INFUSION:_REGENERATION", {cooldown=10, dur=5, heal=400}),
	resolvers.inscription("INFUSION:_WILD", {cooldown=8, what={physical=true}, dur=4, power=45}),
	resolvers.inscription("RUNE:_SHIELDING", {cooldown=10, dur=5, power=500}),
	resolvers.inscription("RUNE:_SPEED", {cooldown=10, dur=5, power=500}),
	resolvers.inscriptions(1, {"manasurge rune"}),

[Frumple]

The heal/regen infusions have always (since at least b19) been like that I just went back and checked the code, heh.

As has the speed rune. The WB's inscriptions haven't really been touched since the bugger was made.

[Dekar]

While I checked that and its true, I never experienced it throwing out its spells at 600% speed.

[bricks]

Oddly enough, I haven't noticed that either. Speed runes shouldn't even exist, anyway.

[finn]

I've lost 2 characters total to the WB before 36. I always did him between level 14-16. I just lost my 6th character in a row to him, this time a level 24. I broke the Master like a twig, but the WB tore me in half. I'm pretty frustrated by this. I want my chest!

[imsabbel]

I registered extra just to complain about this damn beast.

I had a lvl 15 archer with rather good equipment, and the beast killed him. 6 times after each other, as there is no way to get respawn on the world map. I tried every tactic I could with my skills and inventory, but never got it below 50% health.

I see no possible way to ever beat it with an archer except at lvl25+ and good equipment.. That should not be the point. It is bad enough that the player "House" is hidden so well to begin with. If you don't want to give away the transmutation thingy easily then just make it an additional step after getting a house to dump artifacts in.

But otoh, it makes no sense, as any new player will get the chest after one victory. So i guess i will have to get a melee char up to that point just to unlock it for the next archer.

Edit:
Ok, managed to beat the beast - a dwarf with 2500 gold in the bank has not that much problems dealing with the beast above lvl20.
But still it feels pointless as an entry hurdle.

How about making the beast the 2nd level challenge (similar as how the farportal is only reachable after killing another boss) and advance the "house" part?

The way it is currently is, _nobody_ who is not spoiled will find the house.
Hurdles:
1) no hint of reward at all
2) water
3) moderately bad dungeon before
4) beast

Regarding the points:

1) I played the game in early betas, too, and gave up on it, partially because there was no way to store loot - no home to return to. I only found out that you get something per accident after I got a char far enough to start cleaning out everything in beta 35.

2) Seems trivial, but is not. I lost a character because my oxygen was below 50% when I reached the staircase, went back to the shore and realized that you die the very first turn after oxygen runs out. There is _no_ way to know that there are air bubbles in the dungeon, so this is a blind leap of faith. Not something I want in a roguelike. Plus I searched everywhere, and the only "of the deep" item dropping or selling anywhere was a have plate mail - quite unsuitable for my alchemist, who was missing quite a few skills. You cannot rely on it being available.

3) The dungeon requires people to do most of the early game content before getting any change to dump loot somewhere. Not so bad with a warrior, but for strength impaired characters this is annoying

4) The beast, as has been mentioned, is a bit buff.

---

[Fela]

All it takes is to beat him ONCE, which can be done at high level.
Afterwards there is no real incentive to go there at really low level either, which was pretty much the point of giving you the chest at birth now.

Normally in roguelikes you dump anything you cannot carry anyway. Up until today i never really realized the fortress actually does NOT destroy stuff on the floor on reload. The chest is a nice feature as it allows playing in full vacuum mode now, it's by no means vital, though.

[greycat]

1) no hint of reward at all

That's simply untrue. The lore in the Old Forest keeps telling you to go on. The lore on the second-to-last level contains a key. Finding this key (reading the lore) puts a new quest in your quest log. There's a stairway on the last level of the Old Forest leading to a new zone. And so on.

[Fela]

1) no hint of reward at all

That's simply untrue. The lore in the Old Forest keeps telling you to go on. The lore on the second-to-last level contains a key. Finding this key (reading the lore) puts a new quest in your quest log. There's a stairway on the last level of the Old Forest leading to a new zone. And so on.

That's a hint of a new zone, not a hint of a reward. Also, the 'key' consists of all six lore pieces combined.

[Rectifier]

The quest log mentions Sher'tul ruins in the Lake zone even if you skip reading the lore, and quests *always* give rewards.

[daftigod]

Weirdling Beast is really, really bad in this beta. 600% speed rune is just not right.

[Fela]

Should only be movement speed, though, not global?