The Ithiltir (Negative Energy/Ranged Scout)

[edge2054]

Started work on this last night. The basic concept is a sling wielding, negative energy celestial caster that uses magic and stealth to scout out orc encampments and what not in the East. The class will play like a sneaky guerrilla warfare specialist.

Not much is really mapped out yet. Right now I'm planning for the class to have access to the following trees already in game. Note that the mastery levels on this stuff may change.

-- scouting stuff
["cunning/survival"]={true, 0.1}, -- Good for staying alive while scouting dangerous places
["technique/field-control"]={true, 0}, -- as above
["cunning/stealth"]={true, 0.3}, -- makes good sense for a scout; also makes sense for a darkness based caster

-- slinging stuff
["technique/archery-sling"]={true, 0.3}, -- bread and butter archery talent for this class
["technique/archery-utility"]={true, 0.3}, -- flare for thematic reasons, the rest of the tree is solid guerrilla warfare stuff
["technique/combat-training"]={true, 0.1}, -- mostly because of combat accuracy
["technique/archery-training"]={false, 0.3}, -- Aim and Rapid shot both prevent movement, neither sounds very scoutish to me so this tree will require a talent point.

-- celestial stuff
["celestial/hymns"]={true, 0.3}, -- this is the only pure darkness tree. every other tree either uses positive energy in some fashion or creates it.


New stuff

["celestial/motes"]={true, 0.3},
Lunar Motes - The sustain that generates the motes, the rest of the tree will work off this talent. Each talent level will improve the maximum number of motes the character can have active. Motes will regenerate every other turn up to this number.
??
???
Lunar Barrage - Fires all of the characters motes off, basically a multi-projectile attack that will do a lot of damage.

["celestial/sigils"]={false??, 0.3},
Not sure yet if the class will start with this talent tree or pick it up later. But this will basically be a darkness version of Glyphs.
Sigil of Entrancement - Pulls monsters towards it each turn for X turns. If a monster steps on it it will explode and daze for X turns in a radius.
Sigil of Shadowy Betrayal - Creates a Shadowy Copy of any creature that triggers it.
???
????

["celestial/????"]={true, 0.3},
No idea on a tree name here yet. But I want a tree that generates and synergizes with unlit tiles. These talents will generate Negative Energy on use.
? - Passive effect; generates X negative energy each turn the character spends stealthed or in an unlit tile. (May also have this increase the characters dexterity based on his current magic while the above conditions apply).
?? - Darkens and blinds all actors in a radius of X At higher talent levels the strength of the darkness will increase (like that Duathalden darkness spell). May also cause shadow damage (each turn??)
Shadowy Jaunt - Targeted teleport spell. The catch is you have to move to an unlit tile. Probably will have additional effects as well.
???? - Another passive or sustain would be good here since the class is heavy on active talents.

And that's about what I have in mind. If anyone has ideas for more celestial trees (non-generic), advanced or otherwise or talent ideas for those empty slots I'd love to hear them.

Thanks

Oh and talent names would be good!! Adding another shadowy caster to the game makes it hard to come up with good names

[bricks]

Sounds fun! I've always liked ranged/stealth. Here are some thoughts:

For the last tree, I'd suggest the name Umbra. It's a bit overdone, but the (scientific) meaning is perfect - "the fully shaded inner region of a shadow cast by an opaque object, esp. the area on the earth or moon experiencing the total phase of an eclipse."

For a passive/sustain, how about a skill that interacts with infravision? Perhaps adding a chance to confuse targets hit from range if within sight but on an unlit panel (aka infravision). An active skill could have the same functionality. Call it "Chasing Shadows."

Shadowy Jaunt could be an instant-cast. The restriction to unlit tiles and LoS should help keep it balanced.

Since Sun Paladins get some ability to deal fire damage, Ithiltir should have some means of dealing cold/ice damage, even if its just a single skill. Maybe a sigil that causes cold damage and the frozen feet effect?

[Grey]

Nice idea - I've thought of something similar myself, but a more interesting ranged class would be especially well received.

For the last tree the first names that spring to mind are Midnight and Dusk. First talent could be Duskdweller, second Nightrise. Last talent could perhaps be a sustain that adds dark damage to ranged attacks, but that drains negative energy per shot - call it Falling Stars or somesuch. Would have to be powerful to justify using.

How do you plan for the unlit tile stuff to work in outdoors dungeons?

Would be nice to see more tying together of the different elements - darkness trees directly relating to ranged attacks and rogue skills. What you've suggested so far lacks cohesion somewhat. Another tree that pulls it all together would help immensely.

[Hedrachi]

["celestial/motes"]={true, 0.3},
Lunar Motes - The sustain that generates the motes, the rest of the tree will work off this talent. Each talent level will improve the maximum number of motes the character can have active. Motes will regenerate every other turn up to this number.
??
???
Lunar Barrage - Fires all of the characters motes off, basically a multi-projectile attack that will do a lot of damage.

2) Lunar Dance - Sustained - The motes dance about the player in a defensive pattern, increasing your defence by (formula with talent level and/or magic and number of motes.) If the player is hit, there is a chance which decreases with talent level that a mote may be lost. Maybe make it mutually exclusive with Lunar Motes?
3) Lunar Strike (maybe better name?) - Activated - Low damage spell that expends a mote, but mote has a chance to do one crowd control thing themed to the class (blind maybe? dunno).

["celestial/????"]={true, 0.3},
No idea on a tree name here yet. But I want a tree that generates and synergizes with unlit tiles. These talents will generate Negative Energy on use.
? - Passive effect; generates X negative energy each turn the character spends stealthed or in an unlit tile. (May also have this increase the characters dexterity based on his current magic while the above conditions apply).
?? - Darkens and blinds all actors in a radius of X At higher talent levels the strength of the darkness will increase (like that Duathalden darkness spell). May also cause shadow damage (each turn??)
Shadowy Jaunt - Targeted teleport spell. The catch is you have to move to an unlit tile. Probably will have additional effects as well.
???? - Another passive or sustain would be good here since the class is heavy on active talents.

Keeping with bricks' Umbra name for the tree, 4) Penumbra - Either passive or sustained - Increases damage of player but only if the player's light radius is negative. Scales with talent level and -maybe- light radius, but considering the Duathelden Heart a tiered approach may be needed if it scales with light radius.

[greycat]

I'm think that if the motes react to enemy strikes at all, they should do retaliation damage, rather than aid your dodging. Although I guess I could see a justification for having them distort your image similar to Blur Sight, but then it just seems like a knock-off.

[lukep]

Celestial/motes: make them do something on their own, or else the first talent is useless on its own. Maybe +3% darkness damage per mote?

Celestial/motes 2: Shadowshot: activated, costs 3 motes, low cooldown.
Shoot with your sling for (150-250)% darkness damage.

Celestial/sigils 3: Obstructing sigil: creates a one way wall for projectiles and movement when an enemy approaches it.

Celestial/??? 4: Shadow Shroud: increases light and darkness resistance by (10, 15, 20, 25, 30)%, and increases negative energy by (1.5, 1.75, 2.0, 2.25, 2.5) every time you are hit by light or darkness damage.

[edge2054]

Right now the Lunar Motes talent is adding darkness damage to archery stuff based on the number of active motes. Ultimately I want the motes to work like an extra resource bar. They're basically recolored Bone Shield particles and work similarly.

As to the exact number I have it giving your full talent level rounded up (so at 6.5 the class will get 7 motes) as the maximum.

Casting the spell gives between 1 and 3 motes starting off and every other turn one mote is generated up to the maximum above.

I'm picturing the class using the motes tree to infuse and modify the slinging somehow to give that sense of cohesion. Motes are basically round like sling stones and I want them to either infuse sling stones or be able to be shot as sling stones.

Lots of good ideas so far. I like the Umbra name for the darkness creating tree and plan to use that.

Shadowshot I like too. (Though the mote cost might be a bit high).

Knowing my feelings about class balance right now I'm mostly just looking for good ideas. I'll get it all coded and probably spend a week or so tweaking it before I'm even ready to send DG a diff, then another week sending him small balance adjustments.

As to Grey's question about the darkness effects. The second "Umbra' talent will dim tiles even in outdoor settings.

*edit* The Lunar Motes talent is actually coded and was done before I wrote this thread. So the groundwork is laid for that tree and the pseudo-resource sustain. Just need to figure out what that sustain does on it's own aside from generating motes.

Also I'm not dead set on any of my ideas aside from the motes as an extra resource and the class theme so if anyone has suggestions for how to improve on the talent ideas I've tossed out or ideas on new trees or just another way to go about the whole thing feel free to speak up. This is still very much in the planning phase.

[lukep]

Shadowshot I like too. (Though the mote cost might be a bit high).

I was thinking max motes would be around 15, so yeah, 1 (maybe 2) would be better.

I hope that they will have some way of resisting/dealing with Lunar Motes being deactivated, as losing all your saved motes, waiting for the cooldown to end, casting it, then waiting for the rest of your motes to recharge would not be fun. Maybe it should be a passive ability to counteract this.

[edge2054]

Okay, here's a basic tree layout.

Code: Select all

		["cunning/survival"]={true, 0.1},
		["cunning/stealth"]={true, 0.3},
		["celestial/hymns"]={true, 0.3},
		["celestial/lunar-motes"]={true, 0.3},
		["celestial/lunar-shards"]={true, 0.3},
		["celestial/sigils"]={false, 0.3},
		["celestial/umbra"]={true, 0.3},
		["technique/archery-sling"]={true, 0.3},
		["technique/archery-utility"]={true, 0.3},
		["technique/combat-techniques-passive"]={false, 0.1},
		["technique/combat-training"]={true, 0.1},
		["technique/field-control"]={true, 0},

The new tree, lunar-shards will work with lunar motes. Lunar Motes will call the motes and let you do neat things with them directly. Shards will be about imbuing your slingstones with the motes and firing them.

This will give the class two trees to unlock (one class specific) and four generic trees total (though one is combat training). A second class specific unlock tree might be nice but I think it's enough for me to get started coding.

Ideas are still appreciated.

[greycat]

I hope that they will have some way of resisting/dealing with Lunar Motes being deactivated, as losing all your saved motes, waiting for the cooldown to end, casting it, then waiting for the rest of your motes to recharge would not be fun. Maybe it should be a passive ability to counteract this.

De-sustaining it should fire all the motes at random nearby enemies, like a spiked Mindslayer whatever. Big surprise for that mage who casts "desustain enemy" at you! (Less effective if the "desustain" comes from someone with 100% darkness resist, though... do Dreads have that?)

[edge2054]

I agree that with so much of the class tied up in one sustain dispels will have to be taken into account. The option I'm leaning towards is a very low or non-existent cooldown (on cast you only get half as many motes as the spells max anyhow). So at most a dispel would cost you a turn (or two) and half your motes.

[Reverend Bizarre]

The class looks quite neat and promising. Here are some thought about a possible locked class tree.

Celestial / Night Veil: Approach your enemies under the cover of night and unleash devastating attacks upon them.

1. Endless Night (passive): Wherever you step, night follows you. Improves your darkness resistance by X and your stealth efficiency by Y.
2. Emerge (activated; usable only if Stealth is active; breaks Stealth): Leave the cover of night and accept battle. Per each enemy inside your field of view (telepathy doesn't affect this talent) you get a powerful attack infused with darkness. Each Nth attack (where N = 8 - raw tlvl, but not less than 3) will be automatically crititcal or, if enemy fails a physical save, will result in a small (radius 1) darkness explosion.
3. Out Of Darkness (activated; usable only if Stealth is active; breaks Stealth; tile as a target): Dash from the darkness to the chosen location (range isn't that big, 3-5) and attack all foes within your reach for X% of damage (initially X is lower than 100%, but may become somewhat bigger than 100%). Damage done is half physical, half darkness.
4. Death Knell (activated; usable only if Stealth is active; when used, may or may not break Stealth, depending on Unseen Actions talent; affects all enemies within a certain range): You emit a sinister sound, which will terrify even the bravest ones. All enemies affected by this talent suffer from 1-3 (talent level dependable) random detrimental effects and their darkness resistance is lowered for a while.

Uh, also, a random thought: shouldn't Hymns break Stealth?.. I guess they are fairly noisy, heh.

[edge2054]

I like the concept of the Night Veil tree and will be including an advanced tree with heavy stealth synergy. Thanks for the post Reverend

As far as coding progress I have ONE talent finished!! Lunar Motes.

That said I've been doing a lot of work on functions for the class including an actor attribute that will snuff out lite sources and a function that will check if a grid is lit or not. The functions for tracking and using motes are also written and are worked into the Lunar Motes talent. Thanks to these functions I have a solid foundation to play with and I think most of the ideas for the Umbra tree pretty well fleshed out.

Umbra
Shadowy Portal - Moves you to the targeted location creating a radius of darkness at both your starting and ending points. Creatures caught in this darkness will get a timed effect that deals darkness damage over time and has a chance to blind each time it ticks if the creature is currently in an unlit grid.
Essence of Shadows - Passive; Increases your Dex by X while in an unlit tile.
??? - Active; Creates a Tidal Wave like map effect that deals darkness damage to creatures in it's radius and darkens tiles it passes over.
Umbral Light - Sustain that grants you darklite at Talent Level (reduces the radius of light sources in it's area of effect including your own but allows you to see as though you had a lite within it's radius) and darkness penetration as long as you're standing on an unlit tile.

[Sirrocco]

There's a bit of danger to the "no cooldown, half motes on sustain" plan. Specifically, the player can burn through their motes, desustain, and resustain. Not so hot. Personally, I'd suggest going with the "accumulate over time, desustaining fires them all off" trick - that way, you don't even need a secondary effect. The first skill by itself is just a way of accumulating motes for the great fire-off. Works even better if desustaining is a free action. Increasing levels of the first skill would also increase mote damage. Of course, at that point, you can start putting the mote-dependent passive boosts in the follow-on skills. That way, you have a choice of what you want to do with the tree. You can make it a slow-charging mini-nuke for a reasonable price, or you can go all out and reap a bunch of passive benefits for it.

Alternate thought - as above, but instead of pure passives, have the secondary abilities be semi-passive. As an example, one skill that says that if you get hit in melee with a certain number of motes, there is a (mote-dependent) chance that one fo the motes explodes, protecting you and harming the enemy. That way, you have to balance mote income and mote outgo.

Third thought - as the second thought, but each skill in the tree also boosts mote production/retention in some way. As an example

- first skill: Sustain. Gain one mote every fewish turns. Max mote cap is skill dependent. Desustaining causes each mote to attack a nearby enemy, dealing damage based on skill level and willpower
- second skill: Passive. mote-dependent chance to reduce damage by (skill/will dependent) when hit. Motes respawn somewhat faster.
- third skill: passive. Each time you make a ranged attack, you have a mote-dependent chance to fire off a mote with the sling stone, amping your damage by the previously established mote damage, and boosting the base attack by something skill-based. Regain a certain number of motes every time you kill something.
- fourth skill: Sustain: recharge motes quite fast while consuming darkness. When motes max out, this sustain is deactivated. When this sustain is deactivated, it consumes all available motes, and converts them into a (mote-based) invisibility duration. long cooldown.