I HATE the Trollmire

[Aquillion]

Does it mark the Trollmire as completed in your quest screen after you beat Plox? I forgot.

[tiger_eye]

I'd just like to point out that Eruan appears to use the same level generator as Trollmire, but uses different graphics. Eruan is also one of my favorite zones, because it looks and feels great. Perhaps one issue people have with the Trollmire is the trees right now make it difficult to see which tile is blocked and which isn't.

Anyway, improving the Trollmire to make it more interesting and thematic would probably be a good thing to do. As an idea, perhaps the first half or third of the very first level could be an abandoned lumberjack camp. Have dirt trails, felled wood, and, er, some bloody writing or marks on the abandoned buildings, plus whatever else might be interesting. Also, give people a friggin' pickaxe in one of the buildings!

[Aquillion]

Maybe make the trees get denser the further you go in? Have it start out as it is now, and slowly turn into something closer to the Old Forest. This would make the Bill section fit in more, too.

And I agree about the tileset there; the trees are annoying, since they make it hard to tell where you can walk.

[martinuzz]

I must say, the Trollmire is my least favourite level.
For one reason, and that is the pain it is to navigate.

I know I share some OCD with a lot of players, in that I do not like to leave a tile unexplored in a level.
The combination of tree density, randomness, and most of all, the addition of a tree graphic to some of the walkable tiles in the new tilesets, make the trollmire a drag, and take ages to explore completely.

I think removing the tree graphics from tiles that are walkable would help a *lot*

[marvalis]

Upping bill is a bad idea. He is one of the top killers of new characters. That means he is balances (especially for the weaker classes, and the game is still the same no matter what class you play).

I think the consensus is:
1) change the layout. Easiest and fastest to do. Harder: Make a road. Easier/faster: revert to old forest layout
2) change lore. Some agree to add/change/streamline, whatever the lore
3) A few suggested changing the starting zone. No consensus

Of all the options, it would seem the most obvious to revert the layout to the old forest, and then work on improving it.

[Frumple]

Re: Bill. Thinking on it some more, it seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to up this guy, through the simple process of applying vault-leveling (10+ levels on the player) to the whole encounter. Maybe add a little extra loot. Since Bill isn't Trollmire's boss anymore, having an 'introductory vault' (that's pretty likely to kill someone unprepared, like many vaults!) at the end of the mire could be a valuable learning lesson for starting players. Namely that vaults are dangerous and can kill you. Add a new achievement (something along the lines of "Proximity Alert!") for killing Prox at level 1 and leave Kill Bill for the utterly insane. It'd make Bill something more meaningful than 'Trollmire's other boss' and put a degree of separation between Prox and Bill, who are kinda' samey. That would be nice.

[Zonk]

I don't hate the Mire as much as others seem to(though I wouldn't object to change, either). The one thing I really dislike is having to hunt for all the lore pieces to face Bill. Sometimes they're really well hidden, or even surrounded by trees you have to dig...

[Kemsha]

Yeah, I don't like the layout either. I think it can be a bit confusing to find the stairs and it's easy to get surrounded since there are no corridors. For a starter dungeon, it should be more like the old forest. Maybe the two layouts could be switched?

As for the lore, it's an optional quest. If we don't feel like looking in every inch of the map, we can always come back later (or get the lore from the other place, never thought of that myself).

[Aquillion]

Yeah, I don't like the layout either. I think it can be a bit confusing to find the stairs and it's easy to get surrounded since there are no corridors. For a starter dungeon, it should be more like the old forest. Maybe the two layouts could be switched?

God no. The Trollmire is at least optional. The Old Forest realistically isn't, not if you want the chest etc.

[Canderel]

I am working on a patch that will create a "path" through the trollmire, hopefully with prox at the end of it. Though actor generation is still unknown to me.

It *should* be done before b32.

[marvalis]

The one thing I really dislike is having to hunt for all the lore pieces to face Bill.

If Canderel manages to create a path, then the lore could be spawned on that path. As long as the path is not a straight line, this should be fine.

[Canderel]

Patch is committed, lore is not currently on the path, or even checked that it is accessible, but Bill is the #1 killer, we want to hide him from n00bs.

So there is a road "leading" through the forest leading to Prox (with his pot of stew).

[Grey]

Just hope the escorts don't merrily trod down that road and straight into his pot ;)