Exp above 50 lvl

[knypek]

Lets check statistics, how many players have more than 100% exp above 50 lvl.

PizzaPL

[tiger_eye]

That's quite how it works for levels

Really? I'm referring to absolute XP, by the way. For example, suppose a clvl 17 player enters Dreadfell(1), kills a generated lvl 17 vampire, and gains 5% for the kill. Now suppose a clvl 28 player enters dreadfell, and a vampire is generated at lvl 28 to match the player. Would the player gain 5% XP (the same relative XP as the clvl 17 instance), or 3% XP (the same absolute XP as the clvl 17 instance)? My suggestion was to do the latter to help curtail gaining too much HP too soon, which can make the end game feel like a bit of a grind.

Lets check statistics, how many players have more than 100% exp above 50 lvl.

*who also only stick to the main dungeons/zones and don't do any farportal zones?

[Canderel]

I don't play yeeks and to a lesser extent cornacs for this reason. They just have less when it comes to lvl 50.

Also yeeks have a pretty difficult start too.

If we have infinite lvls they'll become a good prospect. Too good maybe.

[Hirumakai]

Yes, but bonuses contribiute to deaply exploration of world and better fun. Do not forget, it would be possibly to obtain in the last part of game. I recieved 50lvl very early and game becomes a little boring. For example I have more than 600 energy in my fortress but I do not need more exp from the Far Portal expeditions because no bonuses. To gain more than 100% exp above 50 lvl is not easy and there are not many players with as great exp as my.

I'd like to say I agree with DarkGod, Grey, and Tiger_eye.

The Far Portals give you something in addition to XP, namely guaranteed random artifacts. At that stage of the game (level 50), you've most likely already found the ideal purples you need. The only things which can improve your gear are fixed artifacts and random artifactss.

As for characters with more than 100% beyond 50, I present Hiruma Kai and Hiruma Ryu. In Kai's case, the Far portals provided quite a few nice randarts he is wearing and has on hand for switching.

Just to phrase it a different way:

Random artifact gear can already give you a 10% damage boost over a character who has fought less content. Or 10% less damage through resistances.

Though getting bonuses through randart gear is naturally soft capped, as finding better gear becomes harder and harder. Once you've got that 1 in 100 chance good random artifact, now you need to get the 1 in 101 chance artifact to even improve slightly. So in some sense its already there, but its not guaranteed - its mitigated by randomness. Which makes it a trade off - do I risk dying to some random boss for a chance at better gear or not. In the case of meaningful guaranteed bonuses due to kills, then the answer is yes.

But in that case, bonuses for leveling itself simply means the game is now longer.

If I have two characters, A at level 50 and 100% experience and B at level 50 with 3000% experience and a bunch of bonuses which makes him 10%, 20%, 30% or more effective than A, it means the end fight will either be 30% too hard for the first character, or trivial with second. Knowing DarkGod, we'd have to err on the side of too hard.

That means everyone would be forced to get that extra 3000% experience for the end battle. At which point I ask, whats preventing me from getting 10,000% experience and make it trivial again...

I don't play yeeks and to a lesser extent cornacs for this reason. They just have less when it comes to lvl 50.

As counter point, I'll say I like Cornacs quite alot, going as far as to say for many classes they're the best choice late game. I also think the Yeek racial powers are quite strong. Summons/Mind control, silence resistance (hard to come by) and almost confusion immunity, and stacking passive global speed are all more important than whether you have 90 or 95 in a given primary stat. Even the extra 150 hit points isn't all that much, especially given sustainability I find tends to be more important than burst.

If you've got a character build which doesn't have enough generic points for the trees in just the class, pick a Cornac, since you're getting something instead of an empty racial tree. Plus, they can pull off builds other races simply cannot. Admittedly, some classes don't have much in the way of unopened trees, but there's always escort rewards and other ways to get new trees.

[knypek]

at level 50 with 3000% experience

3000% or 300% ?

PizzaPL

[Final Master]

Don't be so lazy knypek; you can find what you are looking for here - http://te4.org/descriptor-statistics/to ... maj%27eyal and here http://te4.org/characters-vault?tag_nam ... =roguelike#

I also don't see why you should be awarded for brainlessly farming beyond 'necessity'. As has been stated, for there to be any sense of endgame balance, there needs to be a comparable value to base things on. It just so happens that that value is the player's level cap of 50. Most any if not every character build able to reach level 50 is capable of beating the game. We are already very well balanced for the end game [far portals aside, but you guys bring that upon yourselves] for what is capable at clvl 50 and less [yes, there have been quiet a few people to have beaten the game at under lvl 50]. I haven't seen a single good argument for advancement beyond what is already the almost universal precedent in rl's [lvl 50] for tome4, or a good way to implement an alternative.

[shwqa]

I also a little sad when my level 50 has 99% exp and than nothing happens at 100%. How about you got a full heal at every +100% you get after level 50. Then of course you could raise the amount exp needed to get to 100%.

[Postman]

Most any if not every character build able to reach level 50 is capable of beating the game. We are already very well balanced for the end game

That's why I'm saying - let's make lvls beyond 50's only for adventure difficulty settings. Most(probably all) people who feel 50 is enough to beat the game for any class are playing roguelike settings, so logically they shouldn't have objection to changes in the section of the game which they are not actually playing.

[Grey]

I also a little sad when my level 50 has 99% exp and than nothing happens at 100%. How about you got a full heal at every +100% you get after level 50. Then of course you could raise the amount exp needed to get to 100%.

That's a nice idea, and makes plenty of sense with how the 1-50 system works.

That's why I'm saying - let's make lvls beyond 50's only for adventure difficulty settings. Most(probably all) people who feel 50 is enough to beat the game for any class are playing roguelike settings, so logically they shouldn't have objection to changes in the section of the game which they are not actually playing.

How recklessly you wield logic! The only difference between Roguelike and Adventure is the extra lives, which are essentially ways to recover from dumb mistakes, and when you run out of those it's indistinguishable from Roguelike. I think trying to diverge the two further would be a bad idea. I also think it's very presumptuous to say only Roguelikers think x and Adventurers think y.

Every RPG has a level cap, be it 20 or 50 or 99 or whatever other arbitrary number. This is not unusual, and more importantly has a place in retaining end-game balance. Start to mess around with that and you'll have major end-game redesign needed. And for what? A continued sense of accomplishment? Just as easily achieved by reducing xp by 20% across the board, so you end up levelling more slowly and reaching level 50 later. But personally I wouldn't like that - the game has a nicely balanced xp curve at the moment I think.

[Wombat]

I agree with Grey. I haven't won T4 yet but won T2 many times. In my opinion, hitting L50 is a signal that it's time for you to go and win the game already.

[marvalis]

+1 for full heal on level up!
Add sparkles!!!!!! (Yes I'm serious lmao. Everyone likes sparkles.)

Also,
For each level beyond 50 you get a point!
Lets call these grind points.
With these points you can buy things at the 'shop at the end of the world'.
You need to do a quest obviously to unlock it.
After gaining 10 grind points you get the 'no life' achievement.
Yes I'm joking, and yes I am serious! This could be done .

This is also one of the great opportunities to implement the potion of uselessness. Is it really useless? Try it out! Buy one with your grind points. It is also a great reference to one of the other great roguelikes out there.