Skill Spreadsheet

[lukep]

I made a Google Docs Spreadsheet of (almost) all the talent trees, including their Stat requirement, level requirement, Class/Generic points, and the names of the skills in each. Tell me what I'm missing/mistakes/what you want changed. Link below, but someone better at wiki magic should set something up there. Really not sure which forum this belongs in, but it's here now.


Skill Spreadsheet
Talents Main Page
Techniques Overview
Cunning Overview
Spell Overview
Wild Gift Overview (incomplete)

[Final Master]

Well, if you really want to work on it, here's the things I would like to see:

Which class has which trees
What each talent does
What performance to expect with the talent at lvl 5 and all relative stats at 60
If that talent can be learned from an escort or other npc [and specify if it's learn able or included in a purchased tree]

If you can do that, then I thank you very very much.

Note however, that you'll probably be better off currently just listing which class has which trees and what each talent does, along with how it is obtainable; the 'performance' aspect could change beta to beta so that would be best left off for a time maybe, but is still definitively needed.

Thank you for the great start!

FM

[lukep]

Added what trees each class has, at what mastery, and whether or not it is unlocked. Also added Escort and Quest reward talent tree availability.

[lukep]

Started making a document of the skills (link in top post), is this a good format to do it in(the internal format, not it being a document)? I figured I should check if there is anything that I am missing before I go too far in, so here are the first six trees (2 hand, dual wielding, and shield trees). For the sake of readability, I removed most of the code talk, and all of the flavor, but may have removed information as well. Examples of what I changed (alongside other things to make it more easily readable):

self:combatTalentWeaponDamage(t, 0.8, 1.3) changed to "(80-130)% weapon damage"
self:getDex(7) changed to "Dex(7)"
self:getDex() changed to "Dex"
self:getTalentLevel(t) changed to "talent"
Nesting brackets like this: ([([([])])])
Showed raw talent level effects by comma separated values, "(3, 4, 5, 6, 7) duration"

I don't know Lua at all, and don't understand exactly what the first two examples do, clarification would be helpful.

EDIT: also blind on what is meant by things like: self:combatTalentStatDamage(t, "str", 20, 400), and will probably be done Techniques by tomorrow.

[lukep]

Finished Techniques, and placed it on the Wiki.

http://te4.org/wiki/tome4-talents-techniques

[edge2054]

0.8, 1.3 is pretty straight forward. I think these are expected values at tl 1 and 5. 80% and 130% is right.

self:getDex(7) is kinda complicated.

It's 100 / (Whatever) = X

Dex/X

Or in the case of the example

100 / 7 = 14.285

Dex / 14.285 (So roughly one for every 14.25 Dex).

Some other things that could help.

math.floor rounds down, math.ceil rounds up
math.min takes the lowest value, math.max takes the highest

Some stuff has caps on it like that arcane blade ability that raises stats. Caps are listed last, in that example it's (I think) spellpower(t, 1, 11, 10), 10 is the cap.

[lukep]

Thanks Edge. Do you know how/if it rounds for self:getDex(7)? Also what does self:combatTalentStatDamage(t, "str", 20, 400) do, I have assumed that it does 20 damage at talent level 1, strength 10 and 400 damage at talent level 5, strength 100, but I'm not sure. Working on Cunning now, and spells after that.

[edge2054]

It doesn't round as far as I know (unless it's forced with a .floor or .ceil function).

The formulas for statDamage (spellDamage too) are pretty complicated... a bit less if you don't factor in damage rescaling.

This is the statDamage formula (taken from class/interface/combat.lua)

Code: Select all

function _M:combatTalentStatDamage(t, stat, base, max)
	-- Compute at "max"
	local mod = max / ((base + 100) * ((math.sqrt(5) - 1) * 0.8 + 1))
	-- Compute real
	return self:rescaleDamage((base + (self:getStat(stat))) * ((math.sqrt(self:getTalentLevel(t)) - 1) * 0.8 + 1) * mod)
end

And spelldamage

Code: Select all

function _M:combatTalentSpellDamage(t, base, max, spellpower_override)
	-- Compute at "max"
	local mod = max / ((base + 100) * ((math.sqrt(5) - 1) * 0.8 + 1))
	-- Compute real
	return self:rescaleDamage((base + (spellpower_override or self:combatSpellpower())) * ((math.sqrt(self:getTalentLevel(t)) - 1) * 0.8 + 1) * mod)
end

math.sqrt is a square root.

Code: Select all

function _M:rescaleDamage(dam)
	if dam <= 0 then return dam end
	return dam * (1 - math.log10(dam * 2) / 7)
end

And that's the rescaling formula. I have no idea what a logarithm is but that math.log10 is some sort of logarithm.

I wish I could explain them better (for the most part I balance around existing abilities when I add something). Maybe someone else can chime in with a more detailed explanation of these formulas.

[lukep]

Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for. Also, done the Cunning category and placed on the wiki.
http://te4.org/wiki/tome4-talents-cunning

[lukep]

I think I found a good way of wording talent stat/spell damage now, unless I hear a better suggestion.
For Flame with self:combatTalentSpellDamage(t, 25, 290), I would display it as:

Deals (1.16 * [25 + Spellpower] * talent modifier) rebalanced fire damage over three turns.

1.16 is the value of [max / ((base + 100) * ((math.sqrt(5) - 1) * 0.8 + 1))] in this case, and is constant for each individual skill, so I can reduce it to a single number instead of a set of numbers or a variable.
Still not sure how to handle (math.sqrt(self:getTalentLevel(t)) - 1) * 0.8 + 1) best, changing it to "talent modifier" is not immediately accessible to everyone, but ([square root of talent - 1] * 0.8 + 1) is too long and people don't like square roots.
Rebalancing damage has the same issue, in that I can't find a simple enough way to present it.

I might do a glossary, including tables for talent modifiers and damage rebalancing after I'm done all of the skills (someday perhaps).

[lukep]

Finished about a third of the spells (all of the archmage's main damage trees) and posted them on the wiki here. Finding a balance between accuracy and simplicity in the descriptions was tough, but I think that I have it fairly good now. If you see any improvements that could be made/changes you'd like, let me know.

[Final Master]

I'm so glad that you are actually doing this and doing it so quickly! Thank you! I am checking them out for ease of read and correctness and I haven't found anything wrong yet.

[edge2054]

I'm so glad that you are actually doing this and doing it so quickly! Thank you! I am checking them out for ease of read and correctness and I haven't found anything wrong yet.

Same here. These will be a great boon for the community, thanks for working on this lukep.

[lukep]

Thanks for the support and feedback, also finished spells and did some work on the wiki, making it easier to navigate.

[Grey]

This is immensely cool. Keep up the good work!