Channel Elements -- too many attacks?

[Tachyon]

Grand Unified Spell System, huh? Cool. I sure hope it works - 'cause the Grand Unified Theories didn't

[Atarlost]

The grand PITA of the GUSS is that it is all in LUA.

Perhaps there should be a compile option to accept everything now done in LUA in dll form so they could be precompiled. (and written in C, which is a lot nicer than LUA)

[Tachyon]

Edit: Consider this post deleted from now on. I was unable to truly delete it, since the 'delete' option wasn't there for it, so this was the best I could do.

[Neil]

How is lua a jumble?

There are valid arguments against the language, but I don't see how looking bad could be one of them. What is the big difference between these?

Code: Select all

int dir = get_dir();
if(dir == 3)
{
	msg_print("Direction 3");
	return FALSE;
}

Code: Select all

dir = get_dir()
if dir == 3 then
	msg_print("Direction 3")
	return FALSE
end

Hmmm? And how is C defensible at all? C's failings cause bugs in code again and again and again. Using C more than necessary is just begging for less reliable code and more wasted developer time.

[Neil]

Atarlost: On loading DSOs, are you aware that loading those things are some of the most non-portable things you can do? If ToME started using dynamic loading of libraries, you know what the first two casualities would be?

1. Support for build systems other than automake/autoconf/libtool, as libtool is really the only practical way to load libraries and have any hope of portability.

2. Support for non-Cygwin Microsoft OSes.

You sure you want that? You use the term "DLL" so I assume you're on MS Windows.

[Tachyon]

I've got another idea for making schools bookless. Instead of spells being nerfed wholesale, how about their power and mana cost being dependent on your current mana? The more of your mana was used up, the lower the mana cost of spells, and the less effectively they would work. This would be perfectly realistic, as it would represent your concentration failing after too much mental excertion. Also, spell failure rates would start getting higher when your mana is really low...

[darkgod]

Ok enough is enough, Tachyon, Atarlost, what is yoru problem with Lua exactly ? you keep saying it sucks, now I want to know why.

Lua is almost as bad as basic ? You did take time to actaully checkout lua power didnt you?

Python ? You mean that bloated thing ? Oh yes I did try it as a scripting langauge for PernAngband in the past. It was a hell to make it work on dos/winblows, it is hardly embedable, it is kinda huge and ... well Ill stop there otehrwise I'll speak about it for ages

Perhaps there should be a compile option to accept everything now done in LUA in dll form so they could be precompiled

As said Neil, "dll" (and people that care about portability call that loadable libraries or such, not by the winblowiing name of them) are the worst thing you can do for portability.

Lua can be precompiled you know.

And if you like C so much, please go write the GUSS in C, make it as powerfull as the current one. With the same versability and the same easy to create a new spell. Then we will speak. Ok ?

[Neil]

Python ? You mean that bloated thing ? Oh yes I did try it as a scripting langauge for PernAngband in the past. It was a hell to make it work on dos/winblows, it is hardly embedable, it is kinda huge and ... well Ill stop there otehrwise I'll speak about it for ages

So Lua is better because it works on Windows?

Surely you can defend your language better than that.

[darkgod]

No. Python is worse because it doesnt(easily)

[Tachyon]

Edit: Consider this post deleted too.

[darkgod]

Since when did Pangband got sucessfull ????

As for lua, well either ry to learn it or dont criticise it at all cause you dont seem to know what you're speaking of, at all.

[Tachyon]

I have deleted both criticisms of Lua, and will now apologize for being a ***hole.

[Atarlost]

Um, the only reason the GUSS needs to be written in LUA is so that you can use interpretive code that can be changed without recompiling. Using precompiled LUA would lose all the vaunted benefits of LUA. LUA is a pain to read because it relies on whitespace formatting, and worse to write because it appears to lack such niceties as the trinary conditional operator.

My dll suggestion was based on the assumption that there exist equivalent beasts that operate in the same fashion available for other systems, and that everyone would understand the term to include such files. Last time I checked, Microsoft hadn't copywrited the term "dynamic link library" If all the idea would require was that module creators arranged for compilations of their modules for each OS like maintainers now do for variants then I would say that's a small price to pay for readable precompiled code. If such files don't exist for other OSs or are structured radically differently then my idea wasn't so great.

Write and distribute a program that automatically turns ANSII C code into LUA without error and I'll stop complaining about LUA.

[darkgod]

Um, the only reason the GUSS needs to be written in LUA is so that you can use interpretive code that can be changed without recompiling. Using precompiled LUA would lose all the vaunted benefits of LUA. LUA is a pain to read because it relies on whitespace formatting, and worse to write because it appears to lack such niceties as the trinary conditional operator.

Uh not at all.

1) lua is certainly NOT whitespace formated, what gave you this weird idea ????

2) Trinary conditional operator usualy makes things worse to read IMO

3) The reason for the GUSS to be in lua is not the not-recompile efftect, thats a nice bonus but only a bonus. The real reason is that lua allows to mix code and datain a very fine way so all of a spell can be defined in one place. It also allows for a much greater modularity of the code

4) Why would you want a C to lua program ? The only person that would use it could be me, and I'm perfectly fine without it

[Atarlost]

Um, the only reason the GUSS needs to be written in LUA is so that you can use interpretive code that can be changed without recompiling. Using precompiled LUA would lose all the vaunted benefits of LUA. LUA is a pain to read because it relies on whitespace formatting, and worse to write because it appears to lack such niceties as the trinary conditional operator.

Uh not at all.

1) lua is certainly NOT whitespace formated, what gave you this weird idea ????

carriage retuns are whitespace.

2) Trinary conditional operator usualy makes things worse to read IMO

Not when you want a quick way to make sure you don't divide by zero or want to enforce bounds or want to have a conditional within the condition of another conditional. (ie above some certain level in some skill the condition changes, ie having it be possible to boost wands past their max level if you have enough skill in the requisite school, or other such things)

3) The reason for the GUSS to be in lua is not the not-recompile efftect, thats a nice bonus but only a bonus. The real reason is that lua allows to mix code and datain a very fine way so all of a spell can be defined in one place. It also allows for a much greater modularity of the code

True, but this is more than offset by the limits of LUA.

4) Why would you want a C to lua program ? The only person that would use it could be me, and I'm perfectly fine without it

No, the fact that I want it should make it perfectly clear that I would also use it. Include it with Scribe and a lot of people who know C well but don't know LUA would use it.