ever-filled wallet

[The Archmage]

did you notice that monsters always act the same way as you re-load a back-up file, instead you do the same as before? they even do the same damage and you get the same messages. you can use that (hmm, is it a bug??) to fill your money-pouch.
stay infront of the casino, save and create a back-up file. then quit the game and load your back-up. enter the casino and play "spin the wheel". just bet 1 gp on any number. do this over and over and write down the numbers are coming. when you have enough, quit the game and re-load the back-up. enter the casino and play "spin the wheel" again. bet as much as possible on the numbers you wrote down. don't worry, you'll win for sure. that's really easy money, isn't it?

[Guest]

CAUTION: VERY LAME

Or just do this...

Scum the black market when your around a good level that can provide food for yourself.

When you find a good item, make a backup save.

Try to steal the item.

If it fails ( it should), overwrite the real one with the backup, walk around randomly and try again.

[Tachyon]

That is cheating, as is backing up savefiles under most conditions.

[The Archmage]

yea, thats really the "grey-zone" but it doesn't work on v2.2.1 cos the "spin-the-wheel"-game isn't available there

[Guest]

If all you want is cash, then here is one of my favorite methods (no backup files necessary, although not particularly exciting).

Boost Combat Skill up to around 10 or 12 (I forget the exact number to detect 'excellent' weapons)

Find a trap of (poison) broken dagger(s), broken sword(s), or dagger(s).

Wear all of your items that boost luck, turn off auto disable traps. Now simply walk across the trap collecting the weapons.

As you heal, you pseudo-ID the weapons. Use the Automizer to destroy worthless,cursed,average, and usually good items (unless you're on the first couple levels of Barrow Downs).

When you've run out of food/light and have a full pack go back to town to sell your treasure trove. For maximum cash, be sure the shop doesn't max out at 5000 or 10,000 gold.

I've noticed in tr_info.txt that there exists a trap of acquirement, but the above traps are much more common.

[Guest]

Ok, so we all admit savefile scumming is REALLY cheating. yet, somehow, everyone has at least a little experience with it... However, back to the topic: TOME seems to base all random actions, somehow, on the turn in which they occur. For example, if I save in front of the blackmarket before entering, then enter, it will have the same stuff every time. If I wait (or rest) for, say, 3 turns, it will have the same new and different items each time then as well. All that is needed is to wait a single turn before doing something to reset the random roll for it. And if I do the exact same things, the rolls remain exactly the same. For example; if I am down to the last monster on a princes quest, I can save and back up my game, kill the last monster (as long as I do the exact same things, the damage and actions will be IDENTICAL each time) and get my reward. If I don't have means of identify, I could then kill myself to see what the item is, restore the game, do the EXACT same things to get the exact same choice of rewards and repeat to find out what the other two options are. If i like none of them, I simply reoad the game, wait a single turn, and can reset the entire proces. Obviously, knowing this makes scumming for funblefinger quests, shop steal sucess, and god quests VERY easy. (So if I wait exactly 5 turn before going down steps, the exact same dungeon level will be generated, same monsters, same items, etc, every time I reset the backup file) As far as I can tell, this is based entirely upon starting turn number when I restore the game, and it seems the sequences and number generationwill stay the same indefinitaly as long as no deviation is made. Would it, then, be possible to add some randomizing elemant upon loading a savegame to prevent this type of abuse? Just a thought...

[Matte]

Would it not be possible to add something like srand(GetTickCount()); upon the loading of the file?

[Jules]

ToME (and angband) is actually pretty careful with its RNG.

But I do think there is a bug lurking here somewhere: for example, when quick-starting a lot of short-lived Lost Souls, I noticed that occasionally they get 'stuck in a rut' --- i.e. the random seed gets somehow fixed. Odd.

[Neil]

Would it not be possible to add something like srand(GetTickCount()); upon the loading of the file?

Why waste time fighting cheaters?

[Matte]

good question.

[The Archmage]

I wouldn't say that using the backup is cheating. Ain't we use it all to give our characters a second chance to beat a monster. Or if necessary a third and fourth? So why not use it to find a better item as before? Or to get a desired skill to level up, instead of any junk?

[Drusilla]

Ain't we use it all to give our characters a second chance to beat a monster.

Maybe this is just my Nethack roots showing, but...nope. Never backed up a savefile in any roguelike as long as I've been playing.

[Prometheus]

Ain't we use it all to give our characters a second chance to beat a monster.

No, that is cheating. One of the main principles of the Roguelikes is that dying is always permanent unless you have found an item to save your life. I think some deities will also sometimes spare your life if you've been a good boy / girl?

[The Archmage]

Maybe this is just my Nethack roots showing, but...nope. Never backed up a savefile in any roguelike as long as I've been playing.

Did you ever reach Level 20?

[Drusilla]

As a matter of fact, yes. Never saw more than 36 or 37 in any *band, though. This is largely because I suck.