no selling

[Gwai]

So, am I one of the few who is really missing being able to sell things?

I rather enjoyed the economy of the game as it was and I miss it, but it's not mostly that.
Mainly it's the joy of discovery that I miss: Now most of the stuff in the game is useless to any particular character. I enjoyed being able to be excited at a very fine dagger no matter what my character was. Now I don't care about almost any weapon but staves (been playing wizards lately) etc.

Also, now that the bosses give almost all the sellable loot in the dungeon and almost all the exp, what's the point of exploring?

[Susramanian]

Perhaps it doesn't make up for the excitement you miss, but now you can be excited about finding gems with any class, where before they were mostly worthless. Finding gold is a bigger deal now, too.

[Gwai]

I doubt either is worth enough to make up for the odds of dying to a non-boss who won't drop loot on any particular level. My feeling is that diving is the best strategy now. (After casting vision or whatever one does to map for vaults, if one can)

[ushumgal]

I very much miss selling loot too! In fact, I can't see why it was removed - if you're not interested in gathering loot to sell, you certainly don't have to. For me, it could be quite useful to save up for those nice items in the shops that I wanted.

If gems are to be the focus, simply make them more valuable, so they will be a more desirable form of loot. But there's no need to remove the ability to sell other stuff.

Being able to sell loot is one of the things that I always felt set the roguelikes apart from other games, which tend to focus solely on achieving the plot objective - it adds to the reasons to go exploring, rather than just diving as fast as possible. And at the same time, it doesn't prevent you from diving quickly, if you wish to.

Here's hoping that DarkGod will re-institute selling for all items in the next beta!!

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I'm guessing that was done to avoid the problem of getting ridiculous amounts of gold rather quickly and easily being able to buy anything, with the stores really become irrelevant.

My suggestion would be to compromise a bit. Regular standards items would be non-sellable. Ego items would be a worth very small amounts, say 5% of their buy value. Artifact and unique items 10-15%.

So some items could be used to make some money, but only small amounts, and only the most valuable ones.

[Reverend Bizarre]

One of the benefits of the new system is the fact that Archamges and other classes with low strength are able now to earn as much money as the others. It's obvious that mighty Berserker would be able to carry out of the dungeon more loot than Archmages and such. I don't like two things about current trading system:

1) It is very unprofitable to sell artifacts. Rather simple solution: max gold that merchant can offer = 10 + 5 * character level (or something like that).
2) I also miss selling loot. :\ May be some kinds of loot shall still be allowed to sell. Jewerly, particularly.

[Marcotte]

I must say that I am strongly in favor of the new system, as I dislike the whole "pick the most valuable items from the dungeon, return to town, sell them, profit" that many Angband-like have. One thing, however, is that now encumbrance is pretty much a useless mechanism, as I don't really see anyone reaching the limit (except maybe slingers with a lot of ammo).

[marchewka]

If doing the selection of what can be sold, maybe allow for runes/infusions, wands, blue/orange egos to be sold too? Or items which value is greater than X, where X depends on player level (or just IS player level)?

[Gwai]

Have to say that the more I play beta 19, the more strongly I dislike it. Is there a particular set of files I could paste or anything to keep beta 19, but change the selling back to as it was? Because I think otherwise I will have to stay permanently with beta 18. To me ToME has always been an exploratory game and suddenly beta 19 is not. It's just not a game that has interests me anymore.

By the way, because archmages can teleport out and use featherwind, I think they do okay on carrying loot out.

[edge2054]

I like the new selling system. I feel like I can reserve room now for spare sets of gear even on low strength characters because I don't have to have X amount of room for hauling crap out of the dungeon.

My last mage had two suits of artifact light armor I was keeping around because they where interesting. In previous builds I never would have done that because I would need that room to make money.

[Gwai]

Why not just stick them in Sher'Tul?

[Grey]

I feel the same as Edge. Before I used to waste too much time gathering stuff to sell and weighing up which items had the best value to weight. Now I just get on with the game and enjoy things more. I wish blue items still sold for at least a little though.

I don't get the point about there being no encouragement to explore any more - item drops can still be useful, and monsters still give useful xp. Besides, clearing dungeons is still fun! Killing is the main source of fun in the game, and I'm glad there's now more focus on it.

[Grey]

I feel the same as Edge. Before I used to waste too much time gathering stuff to sell and weighing up which items had the best value to weight. Now I just get on with the game and enjoy things more. I wish blue items still sold for at least a little though.

I don't get the point about there being no encouragement to explore any more - item drops can still be useful, and monsters still give useful xp. Besides, clearing dungeons is still fun! Killing is the main source of fun in the game, and I'm glad there's now more focus on it.

[darkgod]

By the way, because archmages can teleport out and use featherwind, I think they do okay on carrying loot out.

What about all the other casters who do not have that luxury ?

5) Frankly it seems like a punishment.

Yes Gandolfo, I sure did it just to piss people off, and mostly you, because I have proven many times in the past that my sole purpose for making the game is to annoy people, surely not to provide fun. Thanks for the vote of confidence, I appreciate.
(Sorry for the rant, but your tone, in many posts, is always a tad aggressive, while I am nice and try to ignore it, there is a limit.)

My suggestion would be to compromise a bit. Regular standards items would be non-sellable. Ego items would be a worth very small amounts, say 5% of their buy value. Artifact and unique items 10-15%.

But.. that is the previous system (all items where selling at 10%).

Also, now that the bosses give almost all the sellable loot in the dungeon and almost all the exp, what's the point of exploring?

Ah now that I understand

To change it in b19 you can simply open game/modules/tome/class/Store.lua and change the init method to that:

Code: Select all

function _M:init(t, no_default)
	t.store.buy_percent = t.store.buy_percent or 10
	t.store.sell_percent = t.store.sell_percent or 100
	t.store.purse = t.store.purse or 20
	Store.init(self, t, no_default)

	self.name = self.name .. (" (Max buy %0.2f gold)"):format(self.store.purse)

	if self.store and self.store.restock_after then self.store.restock_after = self.store.restock_after * 10 end
end

(It'll change only unvisited stores)

Now, why was the change done?
Because to me , and many other people, it is not fun to have to spot every half dungeon to go back to town to sell your loot just so you can have some money. Probably because there is too much loot going on.

So what about we all gather and brainstorm a better system for everybody ?

Let's see what I gathered (different) people feel is important:
- gain money
- feeling rewarded for exploring
- have a nice feeling when looting something good even if you cant use it on your char
- not having to stop every 10 steps to sell loot
Right ? missing something ?

One of (ok the most, biggest, largest) reason that there is too much loot littering the floor is that: NPCs using items *always* drop them if they are egos.
At low levels it's kinda ok, but it quickly becomes that most NPCs have an ego or two and things go mad.
So what about making them only drop their equipment if they are artifacts (NOTE: NPCs also have chances to drop loot that are just in their inventories I dont propose to chance that)

Vaults are obviously an other reason for the many loots, but they reward danger with loot so it seems fine.

The dungeon floors normally have very few items lying around by default (like 5 or so per levels). Maybe this can be reduced a little tad.

Bosses drop many egos in addition to an artifact. What if they dropped less egos (say like 1 or 2, with maybe a greater chance for a blue) but more gems/money (which seems kinda logical anyway).

Then we allow selling of loot again, we make new/better shops with more goodies people want in them.

Add to that some kind of "minivaults", that is the generators would try to group NPCs with floor loots, so you feel rewarded for going around exploring and finding where those skeletons are hidding the stash of stolen goods.

How does that sound my fellow players ?

[Graziel]

how about adding new kind of shop 'junk yard' where PC can give away his junk loot in exchange for points ( junk points ) junk points would enable PC to get some stuff (sold by other adventurers) it would be something like:
0 - 100 points - iron stuff
101 - 300 points - steel stuff
... etc.

ego would cost more like 1.5x for normal and 2.5x for greater
of course junk yard would have more... much more stuff than normal shops has to offer

EDIT:
(forgot important info)
each visit(or going out to world map) in shop would reset 'points' to 0