ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

As discovered/reported by realm087:

1) Psi-fighting/Augmentation increases Str and Dex based on Wil and Cun, and the bonus is fixed while the sustain is active
2) Pain Enhancement System increases other skills based on Strength

Therefore:

1) Wait for PES to activate, increasing your overall skills
2) Activate Augmentation, increasing your Strength based on your PES-improved Wil/Cun
3) Wait for PES to end - note that Augmentation benefits do /not/ decrease now
4) Wait for PES to activate again. Because of Augmentation's bonus, better bonuses than in step #1
5) Deactivate Augmentation, then reactivate it
6) You now have more Str/Dex than last time you used Augmentation
7) Repeat above for infinite Str/Dex


Simple and easy fix, which will also fix any other exploits based on synergies between PES and similar skills:

In PES, change " {power=math.floor(self:getStr() * 0.5)}" to pass the "no_inc" parameter for getStr (or getStat), which ignores any bonuses made by self.inc_stats values - which is every other stat-bonus effect.

Ah, bloody 'eck. There's a no_inc parameter?

Someone needs to make a "common / obvious bloopers" page on the wiki and put this in it.

Nice find, realm087, and nice laydown of the problem at hand, ibanix!

Nagyhal wrote:Ah, bloody 'eck. There's a no_inc parameter?

Yeah, it's documented in the engine module /engine/interface/ActorStats.lua, under _M:getStat

Would this fix prevent Augmentation's bonus Strength from effecting PES at all? Because if so that's a huge nerf and probably not the best way to fix this.

Wouldn't that actually make PES use only a character's base Str, ignoring any bonuses from talents and equipment? That would be a massive nerf to an already overnerfed prodigy. Making augmentation into a passive, like Unified Body is, would be a better fix that would also prevent cheesing Augmentation with Heroism.

I actually like that it's a sustain because I want to lower my psi pool because of Forcefield and also it can tank Entropy for my other sustains, but it is still a better solution. Alternatively it could refresh automatically when resting.

Pain Enhancement System probably should not stack with heroism.

I don't have Embers, so the cheese doesn't bother me. But it would if I did - however: ultimately TOME is a single player game and what min/max/race we use are 100% of personal taste and play style.

But as a reference to the surprising strength of the Pain Enhancement System prodigy, I'll Quote bpat from the Temp Warden Guide thread:

with Heroism I was passing 160 Magic

That's simply unobtainable with any other prodigy or even most (any?) combinations of artifacts and heroism. *shrug*

I've got close to 160 with gear and heroism several times. No prodigy.

HammyHamster wrote:But as a reference to the surprising strength of the Pain Enhancement System prodigy, I'll Quote bpat from the Temp Warden Guide thread:

with Heroism I was passing 160 Magic

That's simply unobtainable with any other prodigy or even most (any?) combinations of artifacts and heroism. *shrug*

Well, I was passing 200 point with Ogre and TWO heroic infusions. )

I'm kind of surprised this still hasn't been fixed. Well, I'm surprised there hasn't been a patch since 1.4.6/1.0.3, actually.

bpat wrote:Would this fix prevent Augmentation's bonus Strength from effecting PES at all? Because if so that's a huge nerf and probably not the best way to fix this.

PES still needs more nerf, but that's my opinion. My proposed fix would prevent other infinite-loop synergies, and if it prevents other stat boots from effecting PES, that's a Good Thing(tm).

Lolwut PES doesn't need nerfs, and if it did, this is a horrible way to nerf it.