ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

If you shoot a character more who is not adjacent and he blocks you, then you are vulnerable to counterstrikes for X turns! But how could its block, which has to be adjacent to work for the npc, cause a counterstrike on the other side of the room?

But it sure helps the rogue sitting next to you, who then cuts you for double damage!

I think this is a bug.

It's been working this way for a while, including for blocking spells and such.

I'm not sure if it's a bug or intended behavior.

it makes no sense, so I think it must be a bug. perhaps we could run a poll?

It's intended, specifically so that people using slings can get counter strike bonuses.

If you'd like a stranger one. With a shield of patience I blocked my own temporal wake opening myself up to counterstrike.

That's so funny it must be intended

So "enemy A" blocks, and "enemy B" counterstrikes you? That does sound a little off.

It's less "Enemy B" and more "Next source of damage" actually. I just recently cleared counterstrike with a self-inflicted attack. Got rid of a seven turn daze in the process, too.

A little of topic, I've been wondering whether daze still needs to be removed by damage since it's been changed to allow you to react.

I'd say either yes, or it gets massively nerfed. Right now, it's one of the strongest debuffs in the game, I'd say. Pin + halving your basically everything? That's incredibly freaking brutal (and I'm still not 100% convinced that the daze change wasn't a buff for daze, t'be honest). Let that persist over multiple attacks and it'd be a stronger killer than old-style full paralyzation stun, imo.

PureQuestion wrote:It's intended, specifically so that people using slings can get counter strike bonuses.

That would only make sense still though for an adjacent enemy. I'm talking about a bulwark 10 paces away, who blocks my shot with his shield. Then, a rogue next to me, gets double damage against me, because the bulwark used his shield 10 paces away ??????????

If you're going to argue the realism point, give up.

If you think it's unbalanced in some way, that's a different thing.

supermini wrote:If you're going to argue the realism point, give up.

If you think it's unbalanced in some way, that's a different thing.

The criterion here is not realism but consistency. Within the world of the game, this sort of behaviour does not make sense to me.

What's not consistent about it? When you block damage, it sets up a counterstrike on whoever you blocked damage from -- not necessarily sets them up for you to counterstrike, but rather somehow puts them offender off balance or surprised or whathaveyou, causing the next attack to do more damage. Distance is irrelevant -- you can block arrows and slings just fine. With a properly enhanced shield, you can block spells, as well. Presumably the counterstrike aspect has something rather impressive going on (reflecting projectiles, somehow screwing with non-physical sources), but I don't see what's nonsensical or inconsistent about it. When something is blocked, whatever caused that attack is put into the counterstrike state, causing the next attack against it, regardless of source (you can actually attack yourself and get the increased damage), to take more damage. Debuffs generally don't only function in relation to whatever caused the debuff -- anyone can take advantage of them.

Frumple wrote:What's not consistent about it? When you block damage, it sets up a counterstrike on whoever you blocked damage from -- not necessarily sets them up for you to counterstrike, but rather somehow puts them offender off balance or surprised or whathaveyou, causing the next attack to do more damage. Distance is irrelevant -- you can block arrows and slings just fine. With a properly enhanced shield, you can block spells, as well. Presumably the counterstrike aspect has something rather impressive going on (reflecting projectiles, somehow screwing with non-physical sources), but I don't see what's nonsensical or inconsistent about it. When something is blocked, whatever caused that attack is put into the counterstrike state, causing the next attack against it, regardless of source (you can actually attack yourself and get the increased damage), to take more damage. Debuffs generally don't only function in relation to whatever caused the debuff -- anyone can take advantage of them.

I see your point Frumple, I hadn't thought of it like that before. I guess I'll just have to live with it then.