ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

So yeah. It can happen. Once it happens, many things start going south, above and beyond the sheer stupidity of building something that can use neither infusions, nor runes, nor wands.

1) Undead cannot take the antimagic quest unless they're wearing the cloak of deception. After taking the antimagic quest, and losing access to the cloak, the protector in Zigur is actually hostile to you, despite you now being an antimagic user.

2) Undead not wearing the cloak cannot seem to interact with shops -- building tiles in general -- in some towns, for example Zigur.

3) Normally non-hostile world map patrols follow you around, but do not attack, nor can you kill them in other ways. In certain areas of the map (Near halfling ruins, for example), this can lead to situations where the player is completely stuck unless they resort to debug teleportation.

I don't have any suggestions, I guess. It might be interesting to have AM undead special-cased, so they gain access to infusions upon joining Zigur. Undead's faction should probably be set to Zigur afterwards, so that they can interact, and least, with Ziguranth folks.

Undead should simply be unable to use anti-magic. Technically that potion they give you should dispel all magic and kill you instantly... :P

Grey wrote:Undead should simply be unable to use anti-magic. Technically that potion they give you should dispel all magic and kill you instantly...

I agree...

madmonk wrote:

Grey wrote:Undead should simply be unable to use anti-magic. Technically that potion they give you should dispel all magic and kill you instantly...

I agree...

Evil idea...


+1

I thought occurred to me that some undead are more "natural" than others. A good example of this would be Ghosts and other forms of undead that exist by pure force of will. I am not sure how well this fits into the current lore but it should fit in. So if one had a ghost race, transforming current undead to ghost might fit. There seems to be general agreement that undead should not have anti magic.

Another idea is that undead are just the spirit occupying a body being held together by magic. since anti magic destroys the body but not the soul one could imagine a pseudo attempt at reincarnation into a treant lie being. both ideas would require changing race and adding new races so I doubt either will be implemented

As to AM and undead interaction, for getting the tree at all, I'd suggest just having a little fluff bit of text on the potion consumption dialogue in which the magic force is destroyed and something like a symbiont takes its place. No change to race or talents, just a lil'bit of text saying the undead is now powered by nature instead of arcane forces.

If there were to be any game changes to it, I'd say simply swapping it so undead AM users can use infusions, but naturally not runes... just at a reduced effectiveness (say 50% for ghouls, 30-25% for skeletons.).

How about something more radical happens if undead try to do antimagic? Something like you realized your mistake at the last minute and have to fight your way out of the town. Could be a new quest that is only available to undead where you go back for revenge. I know there is the corruptor quest but I was hoping for a different one. Something like you team up with a vampire and make a whole town of undead where they would welcome you without your cloak.

This bug seems to be still around in beta 33.

I think a possible solution would be to allow undead to take the anti magic quest, but for it to fail automatically at the end and the people of Zigur to find out you are undead and become hostile. This would prevent undead from getting stuck without their cloak, but still have some penalty.

Folks in Zigur should simply rally to fight any undead who wander into the town... They arent fooled!

I dislike the idea of making it so the undead get nothing but a penalty for attempting the quest. "Traps" like that are bad things to put in the game, because they artificially punish people who know less about the game -- in general, I believe ToME 4 isn't meant to require knowing a lot of secrets like, say, Nethack does. If the game gives you a choice, in general, it should be between two options that are both at least somewhat reasonable to take under the right circumstances.

If you want to ban them, fine. But "HA HA SCREW YOU, YOU DIDN'T GUESS OUR LOGIC" or didn't know the fluff well enough to predict this or whatever strikes me as a terrible idea. If Undead are allowed to enter the Antimagic quest, they should get at least some form of reward for completing it.

shooth wrote:Folks in Zigur should simply rally to fight any undead who wander into the town... They arent fooled!

This an easy solution. "As you enter this place, the magic of your cloak is sapped. You are exposed!"