ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

I'm thinking it's a mind slayer, dual wield + psychic wield is 3, but rogues can burst a 6 attack round every so often, and have fan of daggers that can hit 9 times if enough targets are available, so it might be them if you include Shalore timeless cool-down. Looking for a class that will get the most use out of gear that has a x% chance to apply on hit debuffs, and one of the biggest bonuses to that type of attack is simply landing the most blows per round.

Obviously weapons that send out an extra attack or (up to 3 as far as I've seen) for 30% damage to not the target will be of great use for this too, but what class will get the most average attacks per round?

thanks, this is very interesting, but I wanted most hits that would count for say 20% chance to apply a random gloom on hit. That is about 1 skill triggering the most effects (unless I'm reading it wrong). What I want is the exact opposite, the most ways to trigger 1 effect, so it's going to proc every round. and spells won't work, it's got to be some sort of weapon. Ranged, or melee. (or weapons).

Let me expand the math.

Rogues dual wielding, get to bump for 2, flurry for 6 every 12 rounds, and fan if knives for 9 every 10 rounds.
that comes out to 3.0333333 attacks per round (over 120 rounds, not including timeless giving more by resetting cool downs slightly faster)
if the rogue is using daggers with sends 2 extra hits for 30% damage to not the target, that gives 7.3 attacks per round (yes, that's with fan of knives not getting the extra 2 hits, and still not figuring in timeless).

With a Mindslayer, they can dual wield daggers with the 2 extra hits and mind wield a 2 handed weapon with 3 extra hits for a total of 10 hits per round. (must have 4 targets for 10 hits per round)

*I'm using the 2 extra hits on daggers and 3 extra hits on a 2h weapon because that's the largest I've seen so far. I forgot the exact wording, and don't have one of those weapons available, but they do proc the attack on every hit, and say something like not against the target of the attack.

Of course ideal circumstances are few and far between, so burst damage from flurry is more appealing, especially with rogues having a just under 3 hits per round against a single target(the 3.0333 is assuming that all 9 fan of knives have targets, so the rogue needs 3 targets to reach it), but then mindslayers have tank, shields, more tank, more shields.

The other classes I have access to don't seem to come close to the 3 hits per round to a single target average, and drop off significantly when dealing with more than 1 target, unless brawlers grapple damage can proc the on hit effects. A rogue with timeless might be able to beat the 10 attacks a round, definitely will in the common short battles, but is it worth it to loose the super tank that is the mindslayer? (I doubt it).

Am I overlooking something? Temporal wardens with threading can get cool downs down pretty low, and do have a couple multi hit attacks, but I very much doubt they can sustain a 3 attack average. Archers can use volley out of snipe for 2 hits per target in the decently large aoe, but then what?

if the rogue is using daggers with sends 2 extra hits for 30% damage to not the target, that gives 7.3 attacks per round (yes, that's with fan of knives not getting the extra 2 hits, and still not figuring in timeless).

With a Mindslayer, they can dual wield daggers with the 2 extra hits and mind wield a 2 handed weapon with 3 extra hits for a total of 10 hits per round. (must have 4 targets for 10 hits per round)

*I'm using the 2 extra hits on daggers and 3 extra hits on a 2h weapon because that's the largest I've seen so far. I forgot the exact wording, and don't have one of those weapons available, but they do proc the attack on every hit, and say something like not against the target of the attack.

AFAIK, this computation is incorrect.
The "of projection" ego can give you 2 or 3 extra ranged attacks and it does not depend of the kind of weapon, daggers of 2H are similar and can both get either 2 or 3 attacks..

But the first weapon that triggers the proc will forbid any other application of the ranged attacks for the complete turn.
So, even if you have 2 daggers and a TK weapon all with +3 projection attacks, you will get only get 3 extra attacks per turn.
(And this is a good think, IMHO. This ego is already OP).

Also, what the ego does is to deal ranged **complete melee** attacks. If you are dual wielding, there will be 2 hits par attack.
So if you are dual wielding, you can get 2 (regular) hits + 2*3 proc hits + whatever gives your equipment or talent (TK, flurry, etc)

ghostbuster wrote: AFAIK, this computation is incorrect.
The "of projection" ego can give you 2 or 3 extra ranged attacks and it does not depend of the kind of weapon, daggers of 2H are similar and can both get either 2 or 3 attacks..

But the first weapon that triggers the proc will forbid any other application of the ranged attacks for the complete turn.
So, even if you have 2 daggers and a TK weapon all with +3 projection attacks, you will get only get 3 extra attacks per turn.
(And this is a good think, IMHO. This ego is already OP).

Also, what the ego does is to deal ranged **complete melee** attacks. If you are dual wielding, there will be 2 hits par attack.
So if you are dual wielding, you can get 2 (regular) hits + 2*3 proc hits + whatever gives your equipment or talent (TK, flurry, etc)

Thank you, I was not aware of that. I was using dual wield mindstars and psy wielding a 3 projection attack 2h sword when I thought of this ridiculous idea to spam out debuffs. I was running into things that would give me 4-8 debuffs on their opening attack, and it was incredibly annoying. Most were negligible, but it made removing the important ones much harder. Never found a projection on a mindstar, and since I was already going mindstars, I figured a future character should use daggers and something, but if having a 1 projection dagger would stop a 2-3 projection weapon from working, then the idea is flawed. Still going to try it, but now it's in the pile of my "I know this wont work, but I'm going to try it anyway" stupid ideas.

ghostbuster wrote: AFAIK, this computation is incorrect.
So if you are dual wielding, you can get 2 (regular) hits + 2*3 proc hits + whatever gives your equipment or talent (TK, flurry, etc)

That's exactly what I was counting on, unless you are saying that to make my wall of text babble translated for not noobs.


ex. I am dual wielding with a pair of 3 proc items. I'm counting on them hitting a total of 8 times on a bump attack, with each of those hits having a chance to debuff. 2 of those hits will be the normal bump attack (or skill) on the target I want, the other 6 (3 procs from each weapon) will be on random targets that aren't the one I'm targeting within whatever the projection range is (if there's a target in range). I was not aware that daggers could get to a 3 projection level, I've only seen 1 three projection on a tier 4 unique 2h sword. Seen projection 1 and 2 on single handed weapons.

so a mind slayer with 3 weapons (dual wield and psy wield) will get 2 normal attacks, 1 psy wield attack at whatever target it goes after, and either 3 (if the first one that procs will block the others) or 9 random hits on things that aren't the targets of the weapons that proced it.

so a mind slayer with 3 weapons (dual wield and psy wield) will get 2 normal attacks, 1 psy wield attack at whatever target it goes after, and either 3 (if the first one that procs will block the others) or 9 random hits on things that aren't the targets of the weapons that proced it.

No.
He will get
1 normal attack for dual wielding (2 hits)
1 from TK weapon (1 hit)
3 extra melee attacks from procs, i.e. 3*2 hits

I found a couple of 2handers randarts that can project an attack on 5 ennemies. Probably with a double projection ego. (and maybe items with 6 projections do exist).

If you find one as a mindslayer, hold it in your TK slot, with Sawrd in your main hand. Whenever the TK weapon hits (ie every turn if you are by a foe), Sawrd will spread havoc in your surrounding...

ghostbuster wrote:I found a couple of 2handers randarts that can project an attack on 5 ennemies. Probably with a double projection ego. (and maybe items with 6 projections do exist).

If you find one as a mindslayer, hold it in your TK slot, with Sawrd in your main hand. Whenever the TK weapon hits (ie every turn if you are by a foe), Sawrd will spread havoc in your surrounding...

double proc projection egos don't stack, the second is ignored. it will be removed in a later version i understand

Skavies wrote:thanks, this is very interesting, but I wanted most hits that would count for say 20% chance to apply a random gloom on hit. That is about 1 skill triggering the most effects (unless I'm reading it wrong). What I want is the exact opposite, the most ways to trigger 1 effect, so it's going to proc every round. and spells won't work, it's got to be some sort of weapon. Ranged, or melee. (or weapons).

you're reading it wrong, because the multiple hits per hit each trigger procs. So, if you get 16 hits on a single "talent", and you have gloves that have 20% chance for gloom, you will have 16 chances to land the gloom (=97.2% chance to land gloom btw).

with the nerg to GWF, the best option is now dissolve (not flurry) for four hits (wildgift venom tree), with an ogre wielding a two-hander and offset weapon, (or abduction with destroyer form (the last two unlocked by doombringer or demonologist, the former iirc) will also give 4 i think), and Warden's Call (which will proc the non-weapon effects) and the Flexible Combat prodigy, with double cripple ego gloves (because the cripple proc is itself another attack). GWF and Hidden Blades will give you an extra hit each.

if dissolve = 8 then
FC = 5
cripple =2
plus GWF + HB etc.

The magor nerf to GWF has really changed this though, so I'm still trying to figure out the max hits.

I've also been experimenting with steamsaws and combining shield and weapon talents with an adventurer build, but these are proving hard to keep alive (I should try a lower difficulty, but I get bored lol). And I was hoping to do ogre with two-hander and tempest of metal, to but alas, ToM requires two steam saws. back to the drawing board...