ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

So, lately I've been poking around the forums more and have noticed many people don't think constitution is good. This surprised me, especially because I've always put points into constitution every level to keep me safe. So, I guess what I'm asking is how should I spend stat points? If I'm played a sun paladin for example, I tend to put two points into magic and one in con each level until magic is maxed for the level, and then put extra points in strength. I've never gotten far enough, with Sun paladin, to put points anywhere else. Is this good? Are there better ways to use stat points? Thanks!

Eventually you can max two stats and get a lot in a third if you ignore the other three stats completely.

It is controversial whether to pump Con or not. Some say it's required, others say it's barely useful. I personally wouldn't feel obliged to put anything in it on most characters.

I don't have a Sun Pally winner, but I'd go Mag and Str and ignore Con just on principle. Mag is needed for talent prerequisites. Str is required to wield many melee weapons and heavy armour, and more importantly increases their damage (the amount is listed near the top of the weapon's stats as a percentage).

One point of con is worth 4 health points. An item that increases your max HP will most often fall around +40 life, at the minimum. 10 points of Con is equal to one of those items. That being said, you're better off looking for items that give max life rather than pumping Con unless you're playing a class that has conditioning (which has vitality and that other one that's really good).

"and that other one"
unflinching resolve? xx%chance to recover of a physicall status effect
daunting presence? scaring all who see you taking more than x% of your life
adrenaline rush? (i think that's what it was called) when activated, let's you use techniques, costing hp instead of stamina.

Tinyshockwave wrote:So, lately I've been poking around the forums more and have noticed many people don't think constitution is good. This surprised me, especially because I've always put points into constitution every level to keep me safe. So, I guess what I'm asking is how should I spend stat points? If I'm played a sun paladin for example, I tend to put two points into magic and one in con each level until magic is maxed for the level, and then put extra points in strength. I've never gotten far enough, with Sun paladin, to put points anywhere else. Is this good? Are there better ways to use stat points? Thanks!

On a Sun Paladin, you have two good options: either pump mag and str, and put remaining points in cun (for critical chance; basically, if you can reach a 100% crit chance, and boost your crit multiplier with items, then that's like more than doubling your damage and your spell based healing); or you go with a staff (short staff and shield works best in my opinion), and then you want to put more into dex. That can contribute to your crit chance if you take the Precise Strikes talent, and, most importantly, it also improves your accuracy, which couples amazingly well with the staff accuracy bonus, given all your procs. I would vote for more dex at the expense of cun in this case.

If any of the above doesn't make sense to you, ask! That second build makes use of some advanced game mechanics that people tend to overlook at the beginning.

All of the above will give you much better survavibility than con. Killing enemies faster is good; and the sun paladin lives off his spell power, with almost every offensive talent giving you defense as a bonus. You can have a look at my staff Sun Paladin guide if you want.

That clears things up a lot, thanks! For my current sun pally I'm using Red's sustain build guide, and am liking it. The short staff build sounds awesome, and I think I'll try it out next. My only question there is, where do I find short staffs? I don't know if I've ever seen one...

short staves are rere.
"short" is an ego, not a separate item.

Radon26 wrote:short staves are rere.
"short" is an ego, not a separate item.

I was playing this on Insane difficulty, and there short staves are not super common, but one definitely finds some every now and then. On lower difficulties, they seem to be rarer, so you might have to go with a conventional weapon for a while. You will then probably want to juggle generic talent points, so as to take out the points from weapon mastery once you have converted to a staff.

The other option, and probably much easier to pull off, is to play as an Ogre, and to convert to a 2-handed staff as soon as you get your 5 points in Grisly Constitution. The proc penalty sucks, so you will still want to convert to a short staff as soon as you find one, but until then your damage output should be more than enough to get you through the game, and you have less hassle with point juggling. The points in Grisly Constitution will not be wasted even if you don't make use of the 2-handed gimmick, since having better inscriptions is great.

I thought you needed an addon to get short staffs ? I have not found a single one with a dozen characters I've played, most of whom make it to the east. I always update the game and play on the current version...

Coldbringer wrote:I thought you needed an addon to get short staffs ? I have not found a single one with a dozen characters I've played, most of whom make it to the east. I always update the game and play on the current version...

Short staves aren't so rares. I currently find tens of them in every game. Maybe you were not aware of their existence and did not check. The corresponding egos are short and magewarrior short IIRC. And on randarts, they miss the indication "must be wielded with two hands".

For sun paladin you really shouldn't need con. Chant of Fortitude boosts HP and you have a fairly big health rating to start with. In the long run you should be able to max three stats and some change on any sane difficulty (ie. easy/normal/nightmare). Two of those should be magic and cunning. The second should be strength or dexterity. The half stat should be the other of strength and dexterity.

Start out doing an even magic and strength split until you have 36 in each with gear (even with temporary swaps) then move to a three way str/mag/cun split or a dex/mag/cun split. If going for a two handed staff build stop raising strength at 28 because the fourth two handed talent isn't very good for you. Unless your long term stat is strength try to get by with as little as possible. By the numbers you should wind up with three 60s and one 32 if you get neutral stat benefits from the sand worm bile. The worst case with the Wyrm Bile is to wind up with 23 in your fourth stat with three maxed.

Dex builds should use precise strikes to double dip accuracy and get dex to crit rate. Strength builds automatically double dip damage unless using a staff. Going dex requires you to exploit accuracy bonuses for damage and may not work well for non-staff builds at high difficulties.

Cunning is important because free Sun Ray off of crits with Sun's Vengeance is how you keep your positive energy bar full unless you just don't use positive energy consuming talents. You could use the axe accuracy bonus on a str/dex/mag build instead, but you wouldn't get spellcrit and spellcrit is kind of important defensively, especially for shield builds.