ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Since the big grappling buff, random named mobs with grappling (usually in Lake Nur, of course, because what that place needed was to become less pleasant) have killed every caster character I've made (well, except for the ones that my own dumb killed). I know they're not unmanageable, but the only good way I've found to handle them - Eye everywhere and then nuke them down hard from outside their sight radius - is one that I'm simply too lazy to always maintain; sometimes I hit autoexplore, and then I'm dead. An infusion to break the silence is a good start, but when grappled I still can't even use shielding runes to survive the pin, much less cast spells. What's the mechanism I'm failing to understand that allows someone, once grappled, to break free and do things again?

If the moral of the story is "you're bad, and Nightmare/Roguelike is not for you" that's pretty OK. I just had the idea to try it and am utterly incapable.

I'm not sure I'm understanding the problem. If you already have an infusion to take care of the grapple, what's stopping you from just phase dooring away like you would against any other melee enemy with a gap closer?

donkatsu wrote:I'm not sure I'm understanding the problem. If you already have an infusion to take care of the grapple, what's stopping you from just phase dooring away like you would against any other melee enemy with a gap closer?

Every time I've been grabbed, I can use an infusion to break part of the debuff stack I get - but there's one (I didn't save my logs, alas, so this is just going from memory) which is a pin or something, in addition to the physical stun, that prevents me from using runes or casting spells. I even tried two infusions but the pinning part of the grapple (icon looks sort of like a fist on the debuff list) doesn't go away with the infusion. Basically, I get 6-8 rounds of getting squeezed without being able to use runes or spells - or would if it weren't always one and done.

I'm not forgetting to use abilities - they just are always greyed out for the one turn I have before I die. That's why I feel like I'm missing some mechanic; I know NM is supposed to be beatable without luck, by any class, so there's something I'm doing wrong. I just don't know what yet >.>

Are you using a physical cure wild?

Since you mentioned Lake of Nur specifically, as well as a debuff stack rather than a single debuff, it sounds to me like you're describing an oozing horror's grapple. Oozing horrors apply two debuffs, both of which have a grabby hand icon, one purple and one orange. The purple one, Grappled, prevents you from moving. The orange one, Strangle Hold, prevents you from casting spells. They're both physical effects, so a physical wild infusion will randomly remove one of them. If Grappled is removed, Strangle Hold is removed on the next tick. In the meanwhile, since you're not pinned, just take a step back. If Strangle Hold is removed, you're no longer silenced, so you can phase door away, at which point Grappled will be removed.

Oozing horrors are the only creatures that work this way, and it's because they weren't updated along with the brawler rework. The Brawler class applies a single debuff which pins and silences (and some other stuff too), so they're even simpler to deal with. There is nothing that can grab and stun you with a single action.

ElrictheRed wrote: Every time I've been grabbed, I can use an infusion to break part of the debuff stack I get - but there's one (I didn't save my logs, alas, so this is just going from memory) which is a pin or something, in addition to the physical stun, that prevents me from using runes or casting spells.

I got you. There are indeed 2 effects, the infusion will break one of them. If it breaks the ability disable, you can tp out of there or use other abilities. If it breaks the other one (pin) then you can just take a step away and it will break the grapple fully.

Another thing that can help, if you prefer proactive defenses, is to use a Lightning Rune. The teleport movement effect should break the grapple for you. Obviously, this will not save you if you are already grappled and silenced.

If you can find a wand of clairvoyance you can locate any oozing horrors before they have a chance to grapple you, and you might be able to nuke them from orbit. It's the only safe way.

Man, I feel dumb. Thank you for both the experience to know what I was babbling about and the experience to tell me how to deal with it. It was exactly those horrors with the pin and strangle, and I guess the wild infusion kept breaking the pin and not the strangle hold - I didn't even think to take a step away because I've gotten so used to phase door / teleport with casters.

I never lived that second round to see the strangle debuff drop off since I was usually getting hit for around 300-400 or so, which is more health than I usually have at that point (I think maybe once or twice I had good gear drops and a lot of health and managed to survive until the Weirdling Beast, which is always a good place to roll a new character when you rely on sustains and can't take a hit).

Thanks, everyone. Can't wait to die on NM/RL a few more times and see what my new point of failure is =)