ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Hi,

this might be a very dumb question but why are the huge xp penalties for many races so rarely discussed and so rarely identified as a problem among players here? 25%, 35%... getting the skills to survive, getting more inscriptions, talent categories and prodigies will take even longer and that has been a big reason why I sticked to Cornac for most of my runs. However, in allmost every guide races with huge XP penalties are recommended without even saying a sentence about the penalty itself. So what's the matter there?

Groggeneral

The experience penalty usually turns out to be a non factor in most cases. It might mean you are a couple of levels higher or lower when you go to the second act of the game, but most characters regardless of the penalty are at or close to level 50 by the time they get to the end. Those that need some extra exp to reach 50 can easily get in by exploring far portals.

I personally do not even consider the exp penalty when choosing a race.

By the time you're at High Peak, you're going to be at level 50 unless you skipped a lot or have truly huge penalties. Like Skeleton. In addition, enemies scale to your level to a degree, so your enemies are weaker if you're at a lower level. Finally, equipment is a huge part of your character, and equipment is not affected by XP penalties.

Overall, XP penalties are penalties, but because of how ToME scales, they aren't a very large deal. A good set of racials is a far larger benefit than slower leveling, assuming you have a build that allows the racials to flourish. Cornac is an excellent choice because of fast leveling and no need to put generic points towards their potential, but Shalore, for instance, have a racial that completely and utterly wrecks the game when used right. Even the balanced races, like Ghoul, have racials that more than make up for their XP penalty.

You'll learn for yourself after playing a while. If you really want a crash course in why XP penalty isn't a huge deal, try playing Yeek. They get 15% XP bonus, but they're one of the worst races in the game to play.

Thanks guys, that makes sense!

I do consider xp penalty on Normal, but its not that big of problem usually.

Also Cornac is actually a very good race.

Like cctobias I will consider exp penalty on normal difficulty, but for nightmare and insane, the exp penalty is irrelevant.

I think it matters more to newer or less skilled players and weaker/harder classes. Why? Because you are going to get dropped into optional content that you can't beat, and you are going to run away instead of getting the XP, or you are going to run out of lives before the end of the game.
e.g.
* I've seen people recommend new players skip vaults, which is great for survival but not great for XP.
* Skipping optional bosses will lose you levels and save you lives.

Anecdote: My only Normal winner was 35% exp penalty Thalore Bulwark. Ridiculously tough tank of a character. I stood there and fought it out with most bosses without fear. I opened every vault and chest, emptied almost every area, and only chickened out of a few boss fights after getting pummelled. I even ground randomly generated levels until I lost the ability by chickening out from a super tough boss.
I only reached level 50 on approach to the final boss fight. (It was a long approach, admittedly.)

Now would I really have made level 50 playing Thalore or Skeleton with a harder class? Maybe I am doing the maths wrong, but it doesn't feel like I could have got away with it.

You see all these posts like: "Just did a 100% completion speedrun on roguelike madness with my sword-and-shield skeleton archer. So easy by the time I got lvl50 in Trollmire, needs a nerf." I think these people may have forgotten how hard it is for suckers like me to complete much of the game's content.

I, for one, hate the high XP penalties some race get, and to be fair anything above dwarf in unplayable to me because of how much grind is needed. I clear almost every dungeon and I've never been lvl 50 before killing Elandar or his mate. I've brought this subject up a few times, but it never goes anywhere.

Well if you killed Elendar, what do you need to be level 50 for?