ToME: the Tales of Maj'Eyal

Hey,

Started playing a week ago, already have an embarassing amount of hours logged. Yay :3

Trying to progress has gotten tedious, however. As every character seems to fail utterly to deal with casters after a certain point, levels 20-30. I've played around 10 characters to this point, of various classes, antimagic-ness, etc.
I've tried various strategies, such as collecting resistance rings so I can boost my resists to 50%+ when I meet certain types of casters, and scouting + long-range spells to take things out.
Eventually I end up in a situation where I simply get one-shot without warning, or locked down for a couple of turns and taken out quickly by casters before I can use my escape runes / talents.
The physical damage enemies aren't a problem for any of my characters really, just the casters.

I'm only playing on Normal mode. I can't imagine how the harder difficulties can be possible if even my most well-built characters die instantly :S

So, what am I missing? How do you guys deal with regular high-damage caster enemies?


Thanks,

Ranged spells, Rush, the usual things.

I still remember how those casters would wreck me back in the days. Just playing and more playing gradually taught me to deal with them. My methods for them now are quite situational so I can't really explain what I do, I guess it's just experience.

One thing I remember though is my first win was with a Summoner class. Summons were a neat and effective way to teach stuff about Line of Sight and meatshields and stuff. I would recommend playing around with one to get the hang of the casters.

Let us know what classes you tried, as it really varies depending on that. 20-30 does sound like the level range for Dark Crypt, which you should not attempt unless you are well geared and experienced due to the sheer volume of high damage casters.
It pretty much always comes down to using a gap closer to get to the caster, stun them, kill them while popping defensive CDs, then movement infusion/teleport etc away to recover.
If you're getting 1 shot on normal you're very undergeared/underlevelled, while it can sometimes happen it should be a very rare event.
Nor should you be getting locked down till you die if you have a wild infusion and whatever class talents along with some gear - zerkers can quite easily get 100% stun resist, as can cursed, 2h wyrmics and some others. Celestials have a debuff cleanse, and as the majority of dangerous stuns are melee, ranged casters can kite using teleports and their own CC.

Arguably the most important tool for dealing with casters (or other high damage ranged enemies, like archers) is information. Use Track, a wand of detection, Vimsense, whatever, so you know where they are. The other tool is cowardice. Some fights just aren't meant to be won.

Razakai wrote:Let us know what classes you tried, as it really varies depending on that. 20-30 does sound like the level range for Dark Crypt, which you should not attempt unless you are well geared and experienced due to the sheer volume of high damage casters.
It pretty much always comes down to using a gap closer to get to the caster, stun them, kill them while popping defensive CDs, then movement infusion/teleport etc away to recover.
If you're getting 1 shot on normal you're very undergeared/underlevelled, while it can sometimes happen it should be a very rare event.
Nor should you be getting locked down till you die if you have a wild infusion and whatever class talents along with some gear - zerkers can quite easily get 100% stun resist, as can cursed, 2h wyrmics and some others. Celestials have a debuff cleanse, and as the majority of dangerous stuns are melee, ranged casters can kite using teleports and their own CC.

My most successful characters were Solopsist, Bulwark (antimagic) and Anorithil. I've also been trying Corruptors and Doomed a lot. (Doomed goes especially poorly due to the short range. Even with using creeping darkness to block LoS as much as possible.)

I'm not sure how to tell if my gear was bad. But I usually had a bunch of tier 3-4 blue/purple/yellow tems by that point on most of them, with stats relevant to my class / resistances.

Usually died to things like multiple skeletal mages, horrors, or the various lightning-casting things in Daikara, and those lightning elementals.


Guess I just need more practice, and to run away more.

mikomyazaki wrote:
My most successful characters were Solopsist, Bulwark (antimagic) and Anorithil. I've also been trying Corruptors and Doomed a lot. (Doomed goes especially poorly due to the short range. Even with using creeping darkness to block LoS as much as possible.)

I'm not sure how to tell if my gear was bad. But I usually had a bunch of tier 3-4 blue/purple/yellow tems by that point on most of them, with stats relevant to my class / resistances.

Usually died to things like multiple skeletal mages, horrors, or the various lightning-casting things in Daikara, and those lightning elementals.


Guess I just need more practice, and to run away more.

That would make more sense. When you said 1 shot I presumed you meant dying to a single hit/mob, a group of gwelgoroth/skele mages/luminous horrors/frost giants can inflict enormous spike damage. So in this case, it's best to never engage more than 1-2 high damage ranged casters at once. If there are several there, run away and find a choke point you can line of sight from. Daikara has lots of winding passages you can exploit so they'll run into you in more manageable groups, as do most underground areas. Never stand out in the open with 4-5 casters targeting you or regardless of gear, you'll just explode.

Solipsist is a class I haven't won with yet, but that's more to getting distracted than class weakness, I even cleared the Room of Death and Ambush without dying on mine, so some tips:

-Sleep effects are really effective vs many mobs. I always get Nightmare at 10 and sink a few points into the first talent. This means you can put a group to sleep, then pick them off one at a time with Mind Sear.
-Your various talents make Solipsist very tanky, especially with Resonance Field up. If you get antimagic+fungus and run a good regen infusion too, you'll basically never run out of Psi.
-Thought-Forms aren't incredibly strong, but they act as a great distraction. I always 3/1 the tree for the warrior, as he can do decent damage and eat a few bolts that would've gone for me instead.
-Always, always have a torque of psychoportation, teleport rune, or class equivalent. If stuff goes bad, just hit that button and get out of there so you can rest up. My last Solipsist died to The Master as I got far too overconfident, chased him down and got stuck next to 4 stunning skeletons without my teleports up. If I'd just waited a couple more turns I could've easily ported out of there.

Learning when to 'tactically reposition' (run away) is how you win ToME.

This is something that bugs me, too, as early as the Shade in Kor'Pul.
Do you have to actually kill him to advance the plot? Because most of the time he ends up taking half my health and freezing me before I can even see him (due to low visibility in the dungeon).
And this is only the second dungeon!

Bill the Troll, on the other hand, rarely causes me much distress (Last time, he did hardly any damage to me at all - but the VENUS FLYTRAP in the room on the other hand, nearly gibbed me with its poison after I entered)

Hint: Pickaxe

Those early dungeons are completely optional and you don't have to follow what your journal says you should do.
Or rather, your journal will not tell you to go to each dungeon. It gives you a rough guide of popular sightseeing places to visit along your journey.

The "one-shot" portion of the comment makes me wonder if a. you're investing in Con or hp b. if you're running races/classes that have good xp/hp ratios or c. if you're missing some leveling opportunities. Most of the other advice I want to give others have already given, which applies to avoiding control or using counter-control, but Corruptors will just straight up murder you if you don't have the durability. Especially if you open a vault that contains overlevelled blood mages. Protip: do not open vaults if you're committed to not dying. Unless you're a Chronomancer who can Precog it or a Summoner who can open it with a summon.

a. Most classes have 3 stats they need - a primary and a secondary for skills, plus Constitution, both for straight hp and also for Thick Skin. If you're not willing to invest in these early, or you're a Solipsist who gets lower returns for Con, look for Con or especially HP boosting items.

b. the hp/xp ratio thing - races have different hp per level and different rates of xp required to level. Classes have different hp mods. If all of these add up to you having a small amount of hp for the difficulty of dungeon you're in (either by being underleveled or by being an appropriate level with a small amount of hp), you'll get one shotted more.

c. Here's a relatively comprehensive zone order you might try. Not set in stone, but if you're ignoring the Golem Graveyard, Hidden compound, or Ruined Halfling complex before Dreadfell you might be missing some XP.

http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=38252