Implicit Effects of talent unlocks
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:12 pm
Slowly as I read up on and try Adventurers, I'm discovering that many trees have special effects when unlocked. Well, actually, I'm not clear on whether unlocking them is enough or whether you have to put a skill point in them. For the most part, the idea is that some trees bring with them the special abilities of the classes they come form. I'd like to get a list of those, figure out how they work, and also poll the room about how they should work.
1. Mindslayers have telekinetic grip. Adventurers can learn it by unlocking (spending a point in?) any psionic category from the mindslayer class.
2. Archers, Rogues, Skirmishers, and Wardens start with the "shoot" talent unlocked. Adventurers can start the game with "shoot" by spending a skill point in an archery tree. Does any archery/x work? How about bow threading? Temporal Guardian?
3. Alchemists have a golem. I know that Adventurers can get a golem, but forget how. Is spell/golemancy required? Do Spell/Explosive Admixture or spell/stone alchemy count? Can you acquire a golem during play or only at creation.
4. Alchemists, archmages, and necromancers regenerate mana naturally. Is it possible for adventurers to regenerate mana naturally? (I assume "no").
5. Brawlers get improved attack speed with gloves. I heard that Adventurers can get this by taking technique/unarmed training. Are there other trees that qualify? Technique/Pugilism, for instance? Is there are any way to get the passive physical power that real brawlers get?
6. Cursed and Doomed characters can learn the "cursed aura" tree the first time they pick up a weapon. According to another thread, Adventurers cannot learn Cursed Aura, but there was some disagreement, and apparently an add-on that changes this. Does anyone know more?
7. Some classes start with free points in armor training, especially shield-using classes (so they can use shields). Is there any way for an Adventurer to get free armor training (I assume "no").
8. Per another thread, doing the Zigur quest does not unlock Anti-Magic for Adventurers. Does it give a free point in resolve? I assume that it does not, since it is using the Oozemancer code. If you do the Zigur initiation, but don't actually take any AM skills, what happens? Can you still use spells and arcane items? Can you still use the portal to Angolwen? Can you get the Fungus reward from Protector Myssil? Conversely, if you don't go to Zigur, but do unlock Anti-Magic, can you use the Angolwen portal?
8. Should, in your opinion, Adventurers get anything they currently can't get? From above, this includes Cursed Aura, free armor training, free physical power, free mana regen, and free anti-magic. Not listed above are the Stone Warden skills. Obviously adventurers as a whole don't need a buff; they can be crazy powerful already. The question is, would some of the above open up new options that fun but not better than existing ones? I'm tempted to say yes to cursed aura and to free armor training. Cursed Aura because it's cool but ultimately not that good. It's certainly not better than light, aegis, weaving, or conveyance. It's a pseudo-free cat point, but it would require a cursed tree, which are rarely used. If you really wanted to punish it you could make it dependent on cursed/cursed form. Armor Training, on the other hand, is a really strong bonus. 1-2 free generic points is very nice in the long run, but also makes the early levels way easier. Even though it's strong, I think it's worth it because adventurers based on fighting classes. Most adventurers are spell-based, or if combat-based, use esoteric combos of trees from multiple special classes like mindslayer, reaver, doombringer, or arcane blade. Very few seem to use berserker and bulwark trees. Even if we stepped back from looking at specific combos, we could look at HP. All else being equal you would expect adventurers to borrow skills from classes with -HP, so as to put them on a more durable body, not to borrow skills from classes with +hp and use them on a flimsier body. Also, unlocking "combat training" itself with a cat point is a horrifying waste currently, since it can be bought for free.
If I were king, I'd give adventurers +2 free armor training with tech/shield defense, +2 or 3 with technique/combat training, probably +2 with tech/shield offense, and +1 with technique/2-handed assault. I might give out +1 with technique/berserker strength and with cursed/cursed body.
1. Mindslayers have telekinetic grip. Adventurers can learn it by unlocking (spending a point in?) any psionic category from the mindslayer class.
2. Archers, Rogues, Skirmishers, and Wardens start with the "shoot" talent unlocked. Adventurers can start the game with "shoot" by spending a skill point in an archery tree. Does any archery/x work? How about bow threading? Temporal Guardian?
3. Alchemists have a golem. I know that Adventurers can get a golem, but forget how. Is spell/golemancy required? Do Spell/Explosive Admixture or spell/stone alchemy count? Can you acquire a golem during play or only at creation.
4. Alchemists, archmages, and necromancers regenerate mana naturally. Is it possible for adventurers to regenerate mana naturally? (I assume "no").
5. Brawlers get improved attack speed with gloves. I heard that Adventurers can get this by taking technique/unarmed training. Are there other trees that qualify? Technique/Pugilism, for instance? Is there are any way to get the passive physical power that real brawlers get?
6. Cursed and Doomed characters can learn the "cursed aura" tree the first time they pick up a weapon. According to another thread, Adventurers cannot learn Cursed Aura, but there was some disagreement, and apparently an add-on that changes this. Does anyone know more?
7. Some classes start with free points in armor training, especially shield-using classes (so they can use shields). Is there any way for an Adventurer to get free armor training (I assume "no").
8. Per another thread, doing the Zigur quest does not unlock Anti-Magic for Adventurers. Does it give a free point in resolve? I assume that it does not, since it is using the Oozemancer code. If you do the Zigur initiation, but don't actually take any AM skills, what happens? Can you still use spells and arcane items? Can you still use the portal to Angolwen? Can you get the Fungus reward from Protector Myssil? Conversely, if you don't go to Zigur, but do unlock Anti-Magic, can you use the Angolwen portal?
8. Should, in your opinion, Adventurers get anything they currently can't get? From above, this includes Cursed Aura, free armor training, free physical power, free mana regen, and free anti-magic. Not listed above are the Stone Warden skills. Obviously adventurers as a whole don't need a buff; they can be crazy powerful already. The question is, would some of the above open up new options that fun but not better than existing ones? I'm tempted to say yes to cursed aura and to free armor training. Cursed Aura because it's cool but ultimately not that good. It's certainly not better than light, aegis, weaving, or conveyance. It's a pseudo-free cat point, but it would require a cursed tree, which are rarely used. If you really wanted to punish it you could make it dependent on cursed/cursed form. Armor Training, on the other hand, is a really strong bonus. 1-2 free generic points is very nice in the long run, but also makes the early levels way easier. Even though it's strong, I think it's worth it because adventurers based on fighting classes. Most adventurers are spell-based, or if combat-based, use esoteric combos of trees from multiple special classes like mindslayer, reaver, doombringer, or arcane blade. Very few seem to use berserker and bulwark trees. Even if we stepped back from looking at specific combos, we could look at HP. All else being equal you would expect adventurers to borrow skills from classes with -HP, so as to put them on a more durable body, not to borrow skills from classes with +hp and use them on a flimsier body. Also, unlocking "combat training" itself with a cat point is a horrifying waste currently, since it can be bought for free.
If I were king, I'd give adventurers +2 free armor training with tech/shield defense, +2 or 3 with technique/combat training, probably +2 with tech/shield offense, and +1 with technique/2-handed assault. I might give out +1 with technique/berserker strength and with cursed/cursed body.